Lend Me Your Ears - Stereo Upgrade Questions

O

onslow

Quicksilver
Joined
Oct 21, 2004
I am going to upgrade my sounds and would appreciate your opinions.

I am into real music, great fidelity, and clean sound - NOT subwoofers, rap, or hip-hop.

My musical preferences are varied - mostly Santana, Jazz, 60s-80s Heavy Metal, Classic Rock, Oldies, and Doo-Wop.

I would like to know what you recommend for:

1. Speakers and speaker set up

2. CD/Cassette unit...must be reliable.

Do any of you have Super Audio CD or DVD Audio yet? If so, do you think it sounds better than CD?

Thanks.

Steve
 
I'm currently lining mine out.
I'm an SQ guy. I require a sub though. Sub bass doesn't have to tear your head off...but you should feel it ever so slightly. It needs to be clean.
I'm toying with the new Polk Audio SR 6500 component set up front and an SR12 for a sub. about 300 watts on the highs and 750 on the sub. SHould be nice and clean.
Give me some budget ideas and how "stock" you want the car to look and I can bounce some stuff off of you.
SACD and DVDA just aren't really taking off yet. Sounds nice...but I wouldn't waste the money right now. DVDA will require a center channel location in your car.
 
I'm doing the SAME THING! (Surprise?)

Someone stole my stereo out of my car and so I am upgrading at the same time. What the installer suggested for me, and I like more or less the same types of music and want quality rather than volume, I don't think ?music? should sound like something made by angry construction equipment was; a 5 channel amp, a subwoofer that my brother had riding around in his trunk, we're adding the speakers in the doors, and we're adding tweeters to the front to separate the sound better. I got a Pioneer DEH 6600 head unit which sounds MUCH BETTER than the alpine that was in there, without yet changing the speakers.
I got Lanzar 1 inch silk dome tweeters and pioneer 5 1/4 inch speakers off of ebay, and a Crunch amp. I think it's important to separate the sound, the speakers sound better when they aren't forced to produce as much range. I'll let you know.
 
I am with both of you on this. I prefer a nice clean sound, don't like thunderous boom, but a nice balance of all. I also don't want to break the bank.

This is what I have done so far:

Head unit: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-fJmDIiMmIcc/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=300&I=130DEHP47D
I found it here on the board for a good deal and because I had some other pioneer components already, I went with Pioneer speakers.

I believe these are the door speakers I have, but I bought them locally:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-fJmDIiMmIcc/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?wm=fp&I=130TSG1341&g=51800

I also have the same style 2-way poineer dash speakers left over from my old VW, and put local purchase Pioneer 4x10's in the back deck.
I think these are it: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-fJmDIiMmIcc/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=51600&I=130TSA4103

I'm not pushing Pioneer, it's just what I decided to do. It sounds real good and has enough volume for me without secondary amplifiers, but it doesn't have enough bass. So I am putting together a set of low power 8" subs for that extra kick of the bass drum. Found a used set of Memphis 8's and have the boxes and amp, just haven't put it in yet.

But this is just me. I don't need a lot of power for quality sound.
 
Need some idea on how much room, money you're will to give up. How stock do you want the install to look?

In one of my GN's I have a Shocker 12" sub in a big ported box. A pair of Image Dynamics 6 1/2's in the doors and an Image Dynamics 5 1/4 componet set in some kick panels. I have 900 watts in the car (Linear Power 5002, Linear Power DPS-500, Linear Power DPS-Q50). I believe in a lot of power to reproduce the dynamics of the music. This system is going to change at some point. Different subs/setup, another pair of mid-bass drivers and swap out the mids and tweets for something else (maybe horns).
John
 
6APPEAL said:
Need some idea on how much room, money you're will to give up. How stock do you want the install to look? John
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input guys! I appreciate your ideas and your time to answer.

I just looked at notes from local stereo shops and figure that a reasonable budget would be $600 - $800.

A CD/cassette will run $350 - $400 (double DIN size) and speakers (there was a turbo guy, Dan McCann, who had both a 4 and a 6 speaker system for ~ $300 and $400 respectively...and they allegedly sounded great).

I would like to retain a fairly stock look...I do not mind getting into the door panels to mount speakers and, if I wanted a sub, I suppose I could give up that shelf space at the front of the trunk.

I am just not convinced I need to get lower than 5 cycles per second for bass. So the question is: When non-rap is recorded, how low do master recordings go? Or am I way off base/bass here?

I would also like to know what size the stereo unit should be (DIN or...?). My car currently has the equalizer...but I am not married to it if contemporary eqpt. sounds better.

Steve
 
Sorry, but a double DIN will not fit. The factory head unit is not a double DIN, more like a DIN & 1/2 size. The aftermarket mounting kits give you a couple of different mounting options. Only a DIN head unit, a DIN head unit and a compartment to hold a couple of cds or a DIN head unit and a 1/2 DIN eq.

For the money you want to spend you can get a nice high powered head unit with a pre-amp cross-over for a sub. Some even have built in eq's. Get a nice 10" sub and box with a moderately powered amp. Mount them on the package shelf, rear firing for the best bass response. They should not take up too much room. Replace the factory speakers with some after market replacements, 3 1/2" two way in the dash, 5 1/4" in the concert sound door location (if your car has them) and a 6x9 in the rear. I'm not going to tell you what brands to buy, you just need to listen to some stuff and make up your mind.

I am just not convinced I need to get lower than 5 cycles per second for bass. So the question is: When non-rap is recorded, how low do master recordings go? Or am I way off base/bass here?
Click to expand...
High quality cd recordings will go down to 5 Hz, but most recordings filter anything below 20 Hz. A cassette can only go as low as around 40 - 45 Hz before the frequency response drops off, so I'd bypass on it. The majority of rock music has bass in the 30 - 50 Hz range for bass guitar and kick drum. Rap is mostly over eq'ed bass in the 45 - 60 Hz range with very little content below that.

Play 20 questions with the shops you go to. If they don't want to answer your questions AND show you examples of their work, run away, quickly. If you have any doubts or questions, come back and ask us. Our opinions about brands may vary, but we'll try to give you plenty of options and advice. HTH
John
 
Update on Stereo Install

This weekend the guy came to install the door speakers- I bought the Concert Sound pods from Intercooled 88.

They sound FANTASTIC, worth every penny. Your stereo is not upgraded without these additional speakers. If your car doesn't have them, it needs them.

Also the Pioneer I have has the equalizer, and better than that it has a bunch of preset equalizer settings so you can easily switch from NPR (Yes, there's nothing like "prairie home Companion" under boost) to Dire Straits and get the best sound without having to do a lot of fiddling.
 
You guys on this thread are great...I appreciate your advice and tips.

It is interesting that at our monthly cruise last weekend, two recommendations were the same as yours:

6APPEAL said:
Get a nice 10" sub and box with a moderately powered amp. 5 1/4" in the concert sound door location below that. John
Click to expand...

SavageATL said:
This weekend the guy came to install the door speakers
Click to expand...

A DJ who plays sounds for the event (and is familiar with car equipment) told me a 10" sub with tight, clean sound would be fine...and not to worry about anything below 10 cycles. He also said I should install door speakers.

It is time for me to shop, shop, listen, listen, and ask the "20 questions."

As my project progresses, I will let you know what happens.

Steve
 
I build Sq/sound off cars, Maybe I can help. I helped build a free Pontiac full of Polk Audio for sema last year. This is great equipment. If you can swing the SR 6500s GET THEM!! The SR series subs are also very good, and very musical. I recommend the following if you are a SQ guy looking at Polk;

Front door 8" polk db sub as mid bass via infinate baffle and x-over setting.
Front kicks 6.5" SR mid bass
front w'shield pillars SR tweeters
rear fill w/ Polk/Momo 6.5" coax possibly w/ tweeter clipped, but try it first.

2 10" SR subs dual 4 ohm coils in small sealed box (.7-.8 each).

Amps-
400.4 Polk Momo on doors and rear fill
300.2 Polk/Momo on Kicks
2x 500.1s Polk/Momos @ 2 ohms mono , one on each sub.


This set up would give you a real sound stage height, plenty of power to adjust levels separately, and w/ lots of mid bass, fill a gap in audio that is generally over looked by "tick and boom". Crossover points and gain control settings would be key also, but in a few hrs, it'd blow your mind.
 
I must admit my ignorance...what does "SQ" mean?

And, while I could be real creative...I don't even want to guess!

Thanks guys.

Steve
 
SQ= Sound Quality where as bass head/ boomers are SPL (sound pressure) guys.

Car audio has alot of strange lingo....
 
I'll be honest, Car Audio is a passion of mine. I dont know the most, I do know alot, and what I see as simple may be a lil outrageous to others. I forget that 20+ speakers is alot to some, even though I have heard 6 speaker systems that made me get goose-bumps. After realizing that, and seeing how my above idea of a "simple system" was putting 8" in the doors, made me realize that may be further than some are willing to go.
Atleast do yourself a favor, buy nice speakers, dont skimp for $40 ones. The $150 do sound better. Try 2 sets of coax, 6.5" front and rear w/ a 10" sub and a single 5 channel amp would be plenty for most.
As a car audiophile who hasnt paid for a system in over 10 years thanks to sponsors, I have a tendency to suggest a $850 set of speakers....even though they sound better in a closed environ,ent, the cheaper ones will still shake our mullets pretty well!
 
speakers

When I had my 85 regal I had Memphis interiors. Watch out for the front b/c of the depth. They were 3 1/2s but they stood up bc of heating vent. I took that dash cover off ( ruined the look ) abd I had 4x10 memphis in the rears. They handled enough bass but were excellent SQ. For a head unit I had an Alpine 6.5 " monitor. Bought a CD changer and put my playstation in. I had two 10" subs in the rear but that was when i was heavy into rap. I tell you those memphis played with the movies sounded very surround soundish. You can try those i love them. - Jeff
 
GregInAtl said:
I have heard 6 speaker systems that made me get goose-bumps.
Click to expand...

Speaking of which. Greg, there was a guy whose name came up on this site or gnttype.org whose name is Dan McCann. At one time he had a 4 and a 6 speaker setup for the GNs. Did you ever know of or hear his setup in anyone's car? If so, how did it sound?

Steve
 
Hi Jeff-

I have never heard of Memphis equipment, but will be happy to check it out if there is a local dealer.

Thanks for the tip.

Steve
 
I do not know Dan McCann, I heard a 6 spkr system that was set-up like the USD/Speaker Works GN of Richard Clark, very realistic. (See here for Richard Clarks set-up;
http://www.usdaudio.com/sw/cars/buick/ ) I also did the same set up in a T-bird SC I had, except I used the 10" midbass versus a 12"....and I had them in my doors. Great sound, but not alot of volume vs alot of speakers because its hard to beat cone area for volume.
Memphis is very popular in the SE area, and you see it alot in boom cars.
 
I currently have a JVC head unit with pioneer 2way 3 1/4's in the dash. The door speakers are 2 way sony explode 5 1/4 and the rear deck has sony explode 3 way 6x9's the rear deck speaker i have disabled the tweeters on them. My reasoning for this is sounded a little to brite on the treble for me.


powering those speakers is a 1000 watt sony explode 2 channel amp.

the speakers are paralleled together. I also have 400 hz blockers on the front dash speakers.

It all sounds nice. great highs with mid to semi low bass. So i can turn up the volume and it not distort and i can still understand whats being said :)


my next move is going to be ading a small sub woofer if i can find a encloser that i like.
 
GregInAtl said:
I'll be honest, Car Audio is a passion of mine. I dont know the most, I do know alot, and what I see as simple may be a lil outrageous to others. I forget that 20+ speakers is alot to some, even though I have heard 6 speaker systems that made me get goose-bumps. After realizing that, and seeing how my above idea of a "simple system" was putting 8" in the doors, made me realize that may be further than some are willing to go.
Atleast do yourself a favor, buy nice speakers, dont skimp for $40 ones. The $150 do sound better. Try 2 sets of coax, 6.5" front and rear w/ a 10" sub and a single 5 channel amp would be plenty for most.
As a car audiophile who hasnt paid for a system in over 10 years thanks to sponsors, I have a tendency to suggest a $850 set of speakers....even though they sound better in a closed environ,ent, the cheaper ones will still shake our mullets pretty well!
Click to expand...


yeahs the sound rooms tend to make them always sound better than in the car lol
 
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