Knock problem, need assistance

[zeus87gn]

I made a change the other day when I relaized the wastegate solenoid should be vented on the other side and not capped (DUH! on me). Since I removed the cap, the old fcty turbo (yes, the one that's slowly leaking) has been able to spool quite nicely . So much so that it was spiking to 20lbs and creating knock. Removing that cap has changed a few things.

So I turned the boost down 4 complete turns and it's strange. If I ease into the boost, it won't knock (audible to my ear) until I get far into the throttle. If I jump on it (make it downshift) from crusing speed (like 45mph), it will knock like a baby rattle. Of course, when I hear it I let off. I have not been able to get my eyesight over to the boost gauge fast enough to see where my max boost it set at before I have to let off due to knock. Should be 16lbs.

I am thinking my fuel system isn't up to par and it's running out of gas. Now, I have a Bosch adj FPR (set @ 42psi static) and a Red Armstrong FP. They have been installed since the early 90's. The FP has never been hot wired. Until now, I have not had a problem with knock.

I am planning on hot wiring, but here is the question...

Do you think my adj FPR and FP that I have are still good enough to keep up once it's hot wired?
Lots of miles on them, probably well over 100k.
Fuel sock and filter were changed at 145k.
I'm asking ahead of time because if fresh parts are in order I'll do it all at once.

I'm open to opinions and suggestions.

Z

 

[BlackMetal]

Definitely sounds like fuel is not keeping up since you mentioned being able to build boost gradually and safely, but if you jump into the throttle it starts knocking. I'm not too familiar with your FP or FPR so I can't say whether I'd expect them to keep up.

 

[2QUIK6]

First...Get a scan tool...if you are hearing knock then serious damage is being done...even 3-4 degrees can do damage over time and it usually takes 10+ degrees to be able to hear. Should never go above the stock 13# of boost with no scan tool unless you simply do not care about your motor.
I say if its the original fp, then yes its very weak after 21 years. Also, if thats a Reds chips from the 90's, I bet it has wayyy too much timing for todays gas. Should have more than 19 degrees for todays pump gas for WOT. It was not uncommon for chips to have 22-23 degrees back 15 years ago for several reasons...chip makers didn't know as much about our cars back then and the way you add power to a NA engine was to add timing...and gas simply isn't as good for knock supression today even though it has the same octane rating due to the other added chemicals.
A scan tool will let you know when its "knocking" long before you hear it, and will also tell you the timing being commanded.

 

[GNRick]

I was hearing knock before my scan tool showed it. My scan tool is plugged into the ALDL port, not the ECM. I think it was due to high BLM's and a vacuum leak. Will be trying to fix the vacuum leak(s) next.

 

[BRAD_PADGETT]

I have a $20 option. I had the knock monkey on my back for 3 years. Spent the last year chasing it down. I was kocking at 6lbs boost. In my case it was carbon on the cylinders. I put in a bottle of Chevron Concetrate Plus Fuel System Cleaner Exclusive Synthetic Formula(GM repackages this as top engine cleaner IMO). Low and behold after putting this product in my tank and 75 miles later knock monkey is dead. I am now running 18 lbs boost no knock whatsoever. It is worth a try. Good Luck. Brad

 

[zeus87gn]

First...Get a scan tool...if you are hearing knock then serious damage is being done...even 3-4 degrees can do damage over time and it usually takes 10+ degrees to be able to hear. Should never go above the stock 13# of boost with no scan tool unless you simply do not care about your motor.
I say if its the original fp, then yes its very weak after 21 years. Also, if thats a Reds chips from the 90's, I bet it has wayyy too much timing for todays gas. Should have more than 19 degrees for todays pump gas for WOT. It was not uncommon for chips to have 22-23 degrees back 15 years ago for several reasons...chip makers didn't know as much about our cars back then and the way you add power to a NA engine was to add timing...and gas simply isn't as good for knock supression today even though it has the same octane rating due to the other added chemicals.
A scan tool will let you know when its "knocking" long before you hear it, and will also tell you the timing being commanded.

Thanks for the reply.
If I didn't care about my motor, I wouldn't be asking questions.

I have a ScanMaster but am still learning how to use it. I need to find a list of what the settings are and what they should be. I usually have it set to tell me temp as I have figured out my TT chip isn't turning on the fan at the right time. So I have my work ahead of me. I'm slow.

Fun part is watching the scanmaster. The couple of times I jumped on it I didn't have it set to tell me the KR and I was too busy watching the road. I got out of it as soon as I heard the knock. Guess I need to put it on top of the dash, or in the dash with the gauges I plan to install.

It's not the fcty original FP, it's Red's pump.
I suppose I could just replace it. Then it wouldn't be in question anymore.

 

[zeus87gn]

I have a $20 option. I had the knock monkey on my back for 3 years. Spent the last year chasing it down. I was kocking at 6lbs boost. In my case it was carbon on the cylinders. I put in a bottle of Chevron Concetrate Plus Fuel System Cleaner Exclusive Synthetic Formula(GM repackages this as top engine cleaner IMO). Low and behold after putting this product in my tank and 75 miles later knock monkey is dead. I am now running 18 lbs boost no knock whatsoever. It is worth a try. Good Luck. Brad

It's been a while since I did the cleaner trick.
Maybe timie for another treatment.
Thanks for the reminder!

 

[87GNSteve]

Full throttle sells the new Walbro pumps for $99.-- $50 cheaper than everyone else.
I recently had a leaning out problem it was the little 3 inch hose that conects the fuel pump outlet to the feed line it seperated inside and had a little flapper valve effect, the higher the demand (psi) the more it would close I bought a pump and discovered that is what the probem was even though that pump 1 year old wound up replacing it. Just for peace of mind.
If you want to meet up someday I can put my Direct Scan in and we can log some runs. The SM is a must have but the sample rate is very slow compared to what is going on inside the engine, DS is much faster.
We have to have Gary setup another day to meet:biggrin:

 

[BW Jones]

is there any chance that you have a vacuum leak (hole) in any of the vacuum lines going from the wastegate solenoid to the actuator or turbo? if so, it'll spool like crazy until something breaks. check 'em closely for leaks to be safe.

bw jones

 

[bmackinnon]

Thanks for the reply.
If I didn't care about my motor, I wouldn't be asking questions.

I have a ScanMaster but am still learning how to use it. I need to find a list of what the settings are and what they should be. I usually have it set to tell me temp as I have figured out my TT chip isn't turning on the fan at the right time. So I have my work ahead of me. I'm slow.

Fun part is watching the scanmaster. The couple of times I jumped on it I didn't have it set to tell me the KR and I was too busy watching the road. I got out of it as soon as I heard the knock. Guess I need to put it on top of the dash, or in the dash with the gauges I plan to install.

It's not the fcty original FP, it's Red's pump.
I suppose I could just replace it. Then it wouldn't be in question anymore.

Here's a start: Quick Reference Page For the '86/'87 Turbo Regals and '89 Turbo T/A
My suggestion would be to do LOTS of reading over at the gnttype.org web page... TON's of technical info/learning materials there. They have a good forum also. Probably want to join there too. Welcome to the dark side..

 

[zeus87gn]

Here's a start: Quick Reference Page For the '86/'87 Turbo Regals and '89 Turbo T/A
My suggestion would be to do LOTS of reading over at the gnttype.org web page... TON's of technical info/learning materials there. They have a good forum also. Probably want to join there too. Welcome to the dark side..

Brian,

Sometimes I'm blind and stupid. Thanks for that link!
If it were a snake it would have killed me.

I've been a member at GNttype longer than I have been a member here.
Been a GN owner for over 8yrs now and learning all the time.
Still got a long way to go.
The children factor slows me down a bit and my impatience get's the better of me.

Now that I have the fan relay fixed I can watch other paramaters.

Z

 

[zeus87gn]

is there any chance that you have a vacuum leak (hole) in any of the vacuum lines going from the wastegate solenoid to the actuator or turbo? if so, it'll spool like crazy until something breaks. check 'em closely for leaks to be safe.

bw jones

Overy so often I find a leaking hose and replace it.
I'll double check again.

 

[zeus87gn]

Full throttle sells the new Walbro pumps for $99.-- $50 cheaper than everyone else.
I recently had a leaning out problem it was the little 3 inch hose that conects the fuel pump outlet to the feed line it seperated inside and had a little flapper valve effect, the higher the demand (psi) the more it would close I bought a pump and discovered that is what the probem was even though that pump 1 year old wound up replacing it. Just for peace of mind.
If you want to meet up someday I can put my Direct Scan in and we can log some runs. The SM is a must have but the sample rate is very slow compared to what is going on inside the engine, DS is much faster.
We have to have Gary setup another day to meet:biggrin:

Mmmm, good price on that FP.
Maybe a good thing to change for that price.

Yea, we can meet up. I'd appreciate the help. Gary get's quite busy sometimes. I live only a few miles from his shop so if you find some time I can make some. This house remodeling is killing me! I'll never buy another fixer-upper again.

 

[2QUIK6]

Full throttle sells the new Walbro pumps for $99.-- $50 cheaper than everyone else.

Hmm..how could the prices be going down on those especially when all manufacturing costs for everything are at an all time high?? Be very careful when buying a Walbro at a price thats too good to be true. I haven't seen posts on this board, but on the f-body boards, which use Walbros also, there's a ton of Chinese look-a-like Walbros floating around. Make certain the vendor guarantees they are the real deal Walbro and not the Chinese versions.
I don't know which versions Mike has, but you should ask to make sure.

 

[87GNSteve]

I dont think Mike at Full Throttle would risk his reputation by selling counterfit Walbro pumps.
I have been a long time customer and many other people here will affirm to the fact that they are nothing but a strong, upstanding, and innovative vendor to the Turbo Buick community.