Is it worth the little benefit? Porting the intake and heads

[Shamusvelez]

Since i now have the opportunity to access the intake manifold and the heads, its my understanding that our early hotair grandnationals, and all of them for that matter, can benefit some from porting and polishing the intake and the heads. I know very little about engine works and im quickly learning some though but i can definately grasp the concept of maximizing the amount of air intake and cutting down on turbulence and maximizing flow, for this is all in the name of greater performance. My question is, is it all worth it? Are the gains so small, or am i really going to notice a considerable difference in my engines performance? Please help me if you can. I am to do this in the next day or so with or without a reply, because i want the most out of my little turbo 6, and she deserves all the best i can give to her! -Jimmy

 

[rod2239]

Since i now have the opportunity to access the intake manifold and the heads, its my understanding that our early hotair grandnationals, and all of them for that matter, can benefit some from porting and polishing the intake and the heads. I know very little about engine works and im quickly learning some though but i can definately grasp the concept of maximizing the amount of air intake and cutting down on turbulence and maximizing flow, for this is all in the name of greater performance. My question is, is it all worth it? Are the gains so small, or am i really going to notice a considerable difference in my engines performance? Please help me if you can. I am to do this in the next day or so with or without a reply, because i want the most out of my little turbo 6, and she deserves all the best i can give to her! -Jimmy

Jimmy,

You will see a noticable difference if the heads are properly ported and matched with your intake. The problem with the hot air intakes is they're one piece and you can only port the runners. If you're going to go all out you'll need to cut the intake to access the inside and then weld it back after porting. This will allow you to port the inside of the intake. You can contact Tom at Champion to see if he's still doing this. He did it for mine and did a great job.

 

[Shamusvelez]

Thanks Rod. Appreciate the info.

Sent from my iPad using Turbo Buick

 

[Jerryl]

Since i now have the opportunity to access the intake manifold and the heads, its my understanding that our early hotair grandnationals, and all of them for that matter, can benefit some from porting and polishing the intake and the heads. ...........

First off; What is your goal?
Ported heads . . . . Do it if you can. You can expect about a 30-40HP increase with these, all else being equal.

FWIW; The non-gutted intake has been in the 10’s repeatedly.
I am in no way suggesting that a gutted intake has no merit.
IMHO, there should be more than just “gutting an intake and welding a plate”, IF you plant to spay "some alcohol".

 

[RUDE DOG]

FWIW; The non-gutted intake has been in the 10’s repeatedly.

I didnt know this, did they at least port the runners or was it totally stock Jerryl.

 

[Jerryl]

. . . . .I didnt know this, did they at least port the runners or was it totally stock Jerryl.

If the links do not work, search this forum for;
Intake - Lee Thompson
Intake - Dwayne

Happy reading . . . . You may make some decisions after reading the threads.

http://turbobuick.com/forums/search/1920646/?q=intake&o=date&c[user][0]=407
http://turbobuick.com/forums/search/1920630/?q=intake&o=date&c[user][0]=147

Edit:
Also search for Boost231 and Turbo6x2

 

[Shamusvelez]

Thank you Jerryl, heads and intake are being massaged as we speak. Can't wait to feel the difference. 30,40 extra ponies makes a big difference. She already has a bigger comp cam, bored 30 or 40 over still not sure, and I just installed TR's cold air intake. I'm also doing 60lb-ers, 87 ecm, 87 maf, alky, and a tt chip for the combo. Should be pretty bad ass when all is said and done. Will fill you in when she's done and post some pics. After this I'm probably going to do a Ta-33 to finish it all off nicely but that is not for a few weeks. Thanks again for the input bro. Much appreciated! -James

Sent from my iPad using Turbo Buick

 

[Jerryl]

Thank you Jerryl, heads and intake are being massaged as we speak. Can't wait to feel the difference. 30,40 extra ponies makes a big difference. She already has a bigger comp cam, bored 30 or 40 over still not sure, and I just installed TR's cold air intake. I'm also doing 60lb-ers, 87 ecm, 87 maf, alky, and a tt chip for the combo. Should be pretty bad ass when all is said and done. Will fill you in when she's done and post some pics. After this I'm probably going to do a Ta-33 to finish it all off nicely but that is not for a few weeks. Thanks again for the input bro. Much appreciated! -James

What cam will you be running?
30-40 HP . . . "IF" there are no other restrictions . . . .

 

[Shamusvelez]

What cam will you be running?
30-40 HP . . . "IF" there are no other restrictions . . . .

Not sure of the exact specs but i know its a comp cam, as big as you can stuff in a stock motor. Motor mech gave me the specs over the phone and i didnt write them down. Too many numbers to remember. But its definitely getting the most out of the motor.

 

[RUDE DOG]

If the links do not work, search this forum for;
Intake - Lee Thompson
Intake - Dwayne

Happy reading . . . . You may make some decisions after reading the threads.

http://turbobuick.com/forums/search/1920646/?q=intake&o=date&c[user][0]=407
http://turbobuick.com/forums/search/1920630/?q=intake&o=date&c[user][0]=147

Edit:
Also search for Boost231 and Turbo6x2

Im impressed with the info. I also saw a youtube video on Lee running his 85 T Type and if im not mistaken it ran 9's, did he run a different setup for this acheivement. Thanks Rudy

 

[SloGN]

First off; What is your goal?
Ported heads . . . . Do it if you can. You can expect about a 30-40HP increase with these, all else being equal.

FWIW; The non-gutted intake has been in the 10’s repeatedly.
I am in no way suggesting that a gutted intake has no merit.
IMHO, there should be more than just “gutting an intake and welding a plate”, IF you plant to spay "some alcohol".

So jerryl just how many peeps with a gasket ported stock hot-air intake been in the 10's . The only one thats has a confirmed 10's is jamie show me some time slips!

 

[Jerryl]

So jerryl just how many peeps with a gasket ported stock hot-air intake been in the 10's . The only one thats has a confirmed 10's is jamie show me some time slips!

Well . . . . Probably need to clarify . . . .
The gutted intake flows more than the ported stocker, period.
No one can argue that fact based on your work. (Thank you for sharing the test data!)
That does not mean you need one to go 11’s . . . . . . ?

Let’s clarify once step further . . .
How many HA will ever go 11’s? Not many and probably 3-4 that ever will.
How many have the combination of parts to make it to 11’s? Not many.
Does that invalidate the ported intake’s ability to get there?
So would you agree that despite CID, the ported stocker is good to easy . . . . say . . . . mid 11’s?

Not too many HA’s have been in the 10’s with a HA . . . . period.
But those who have, have done it more than once with a ported intake.
Now . . . . Does that qualify as “repeatedly”?
I don't want people to think that if they get a gutted intake, they will magically run some number . . . . You are smart enough to understand that.
It would be no different than porting the intake on a 12 sec IC'd car eand expect significant results.

Don't wait for a timeslip from me . . . I have zero desire to ever do what Jamie and others have done . . . . . Zero, Nada, None.
And to be brutally honest . . . Even if I did run 10's, I would not share the result because it means nothing to me.

Always a good discussion with you. Iron sharpens iron . . . .

 

[SloGN]

Jerryl.

A gutted intake may help a stocker run better than you think. Cause from the flow data i have seen your still tuning you the weakest/ more knock prone cylinder. Just like the power plate helps a stock I/C engine stop this same problem.

My take on this is if your gonna spend money on ported heads and other speed stuff just bite the bullet and get a gutted/ported intake.


The gasket ported intake that i flowed that came off of brent's car ( O SO LO'S NOW) had very poor cylinder to cylinder flow. That even with a killer port job on the intake runners. so again the balance of flow was off and that makes tuning a bitch and when you need big power every cylinder needs to be the same.


Also for running the in the 11's hell 10's for that matter takes some big boost due to the restrictions in the intake alone. So that does nothing to help a hot-air at all.


Not tring to come across as a dick but i just haven't seen any time slips or dyno numbers from any hot-air combos on this board to warrant to say a ported stocker does this repeatedly except for one person. so i can't say that it's done all the time by more than one person.

 

[Jerryl]

Pat,
Your statements make sense.
Denying it can be done is only removing the credibility from those who have posted their times and combo’s over the years. Let’s not get stuck on interpretation of my wording of “repeatedly”.
Good discussion! We have lost a lot of this level of HA tech discussions through the years.
People will need to make their own decisions based on threads posted in this section.

Sidebar:
Was talking to a friend of my neighbor yesterday who used to race some stock car something class . . . . Don’t remember because I know nothing about it. He showed me some pics of him ad some of the big NASCAR boys. . . . which I did not really care bout either . . .
What was interesting is his statement . . . . the class is limited to 390CFM - 4 barrel carb. They put out a little over 600 HP NA.
In a theoretical instant, it does not add up since you need about 900CFM to make that amount of HP.

 

[SloGN]

Pat,
Your statements make sense.
Denying it can be done is only removing the credibility from those who have posted their times and combo’s over the years. Let’s not get stuck on interpretation of my wording of “repeatedly”.
Good discussion! We have lost a lot of this level of HA tech discussions through the years.
People will need to make their own decisions based on threads posted in this section.

Sidebar:
Was talking to a friend of my neighbor yesterday who used to race some stock car something class . . . . Don’t remember because I know nothing about it. He showed me some pics of him ad some of the big NASCAR boys. . . . which I did not really care bout either . . .
What was interesting is his statement . . . . the class is limited to 390CFM - 4 barrel carb. They put out a little over 600 HP NA.
In a theoretical instant, it does not add up since you need about 900CFM to make that amount of HP.

No problem i love a good tech session myself makes me think a little.

On your side note!

600 hp with a 390 cfm carb. well lets see it despends on how much pressure drop was used to measure the first 390 cfm! it all relative. if only one could find out how much pressure drop there was across the throat/ venturi at what rpm when the 600 hp was made.

I'm gonna assume most carbs are tested on a flow bench using the standard test pressure set @ 28 inches of water for the pressure drop. Thats only tad over 2 inches of mercury or 1 psi. so that 390 cfm carb could really move a ton of air at a lower pressure drop.


But i'm sure you understand that stuff