Installed some upgrades and I'm having problems

[crow]

I had a stock GN for years. My muffler system rotted so I decided to go with 2 1/2" SS cat back. While I was added I replaced my stock Dm with a 3.5" DP and installed a cutout pipe. While I was at it I replaced the stock chip with a TT chip. I now can only use 93 octane, not that I used regular gas before. To top it of I installed a 4" to 3" cold air system to the turbo.
I had a chance to open her up on a long stretch of straight solitary road a few days ago. It leaped from 60MPH to 95MPH in seconds. Then it started to "flutter". I cant discribe it any other way.
It was still pulling hard, lots of power but I took my foot off of it and went back down to 60. Thought about it and tried again and the same thing happened. Any ideas as to cause?
The plugs are new, the wires are new or low milage, so is the coil, regulator, fuel filter, air filter (that is huge). BTW, glanced at the stock "boost guage" at 95MPH (I installed a new speedometer reading up to 145MPH) and it was redlined, way over 15lbs of boost. I'm not counting on this information cause I cant imagine that much boost from a stock turbo in a pampered, all its life, car.
Thanks

 

[krom]

If you went from a stock air intake to a cold air system the difference in noise flutter is very noticeable.

 

[87granny]

If you went from a stock air intake to a cold air system the difference in noise flutter is very noticeable.

X2 also stock turbo's have been pushed to 26 psi so yes you prob. have more than 15psi hopefuly you have a scantool to check knock and O2, or a knock gauge and a good boost gauge cause the one in the dash is nothing but a light show for most

 

[pacecarta]

where did you get the TT chip
the tt chip controls the stock wasgate solenoid so it does alter the boost if you run the Oe solenoid
changing the pipe can change the tension on the arm so boost can go up
also the new pipe has a larger puck than the stock , new is probably 1.5" , stock is 1.12" , the stock port hole is .8" in the exhaust housing , this added metal covering the puck restricts exhaust from escaping unless you port the turbo to within 1/8" of the puck, you could very well have overboosted the motor for 93octane and what you felt was timing retard due to excessive knock

you need to monitor the boost with a real gauge and you need to monitor O2 and knock

get the boost gauge and get a scanmaster and read how to use it before you blow your car up

 

[jasjamz]

Are you still using the stock waste gate?
Are all your vacuum hoses in good condition?
Do you still have the boost solenoid on the passenger side valve cover?
Do you have a boost gauge other than the stock dash l.e.d?
Do you have a scanmaster or knock gauge?

 

[CaptainInsane-O]

You said the regulator is new, but is it adj or stock? Stock fuel pump? Could be running out of fuel...

 

[GullsGN]

That "flutter" is detonation. You are about to blow that engine if you do not tune it right. Your chip requires 43lbs of fuel pressure. You need a scanmaster to show what various numbers are and a boost guage. Boost, octane, and fuel pressure are all connected and must be monitored and set correctly or you will have KNOCK. This WILL cause your headgaskets to blow. If they leak antifreeze into your oil before you catch it you will also be replacing your bearings. Drive like an old lady till you know what your boost is. Do not set the boost to more than 12lbs or so till you know how to tune it.

 

[Razor]

I had a stock GN for years. My muffler system rotted so I decided to go with 2 1/2" SS cat back. While I was added I replaced my stock Dm with a 3.5" DP and installed a cutout pipe. While I was at it I replaced the stock chip with a TT chip. I now can only use 93 octane, not that I used regular gas before. To top it of I installed a 4" to 3" cold air system to the turbo.
I had a chance to open her up on a long stretch of straight solitary road a few days ago. It leaped from 60MPH to 95MPH in seconds. Then it started to "flutter". I cant discribe it any other way.
It was still pulling hard, lots of power but I took my foot off of it and went back down to 60. Thought about it and tried again and the same thing happened. Any ideas as to cause?
The plugs are new, the wires are new or low milage, so is the coil, regulator, fuel filter, air filter (that is huge). BTW, glanced at the stock "boost guage" at 95MPH (I installed a new speedometer reading up to 145MPH) and it was redlined, way over 15lbs of boost. I'm not counting on this information cause I cant imagine that much boost from a stock turbo in a pampered, all its life, car.
Thanks

I bet your detonating the XXXX out of it.

First mod.. scanmaster 2.1
Second mod... boost gauge that works.

Third.. Fuel pump and hotwire kit.

Fourth.. doesnt matter. If you get engine knock you will blow the motor up. That stock turbo can make enough boost to completely cream the engine.

You changed the downpipe.. you opened pandoras box on boost. beating on it at higher boost than stock will get you to a machine shop really quick IF its getting knock.

Fluttering=motor telling you to STOP doing this to me.

HTH

 

[crow]

pacecarta, got the chip from TurboTweak.

the tt chip controls the stock wasgate solenoid so it does alter the boost if you run the Oe solenoid
Not sure I have a Oe solenoid. There is bung on the DP but I plugged it.

changing the pipe can change the tension on the arm so boost can go up
also the new pipe has a larger puck than the stock , new is probably 1.5" , stock is 1.12" , the stock port hole is .8" in the exhaust housing , this added metal covering the puck restricts exhaust from escaping unless you port the turbo to within 1/8" of the puck, you could very well have overboosted the motor for 93octane and what you felt was timing retard due to excessive knock
That does not sound good, excessive knock. Good thing I stopped emmidiatly

you need to monitor the boost with a real gauge and you need to monitor O2 and knock

get the boost gauge and get a scanmaster and read how to use it before you blow your car up
Will look into installing a real boost guage and scanner. Thinking of taking it to the shop and have it run on the Dyno. Have someone who rteally knows wehat they are doing tune her up mand outfit me withm the right setup. I wsant to keep her for mazny years more. Thank you all for the good information.

 

[CaptainInsane-O]

Stock boost solenoid is on top of the passenger side valve cover...

 

[TR Custom Parts]

The only "fluttering" you should get with a cold air kit would be when you let OFF the gas, which is perfectly normal. It will NOT cause fluttering if you have the gas pedal matted.

 

[crow]

CaptainInsane-O
That is what I have. Also using a stock fuel pump. Years ago I punched a small hole in the gas tank. Could nnot get it to stop leaking so bought another tank. Thed pump was hot wired but not replaced. Now that you mention it, that pump is original. It may be worn out.

GullsGN
The car will not be driven till I take it to the shop. I will drive like a very old lady.

jazjamz
Are you still using the stock waste gate?............. Yes.
Are all your vacuum hoses in good condition?........ I belive so. Changed them
Do you still have the boost solenoid on the passenger side valve cover?..Yes
Do you have a boost gauge other than the stock dash l.e.d?
....No.
Do you have a scanmaster or knock gauge?...No.

 

[87granny]

The pump being original and the last two no's are not a good sign you need a good boost gauge and at least a scanmaster to have an idea of what's going on boost at this point mabe 18-30psi who knows

 

[meanchicken]

After the Scan Master and good Boost Gage are installed, also replace your fuel filter and keep the boost turned down.

Hook up a remote fuel gauge that you can monitor while driving. This can be a temp set up.

Run a flex fuel hose (make sure it's properly rated high pressure fuel hose so you don't blow it apart and die in a firey crash) from the fuel rail and under the back of the hood on the driver side and to a good fuel gage that you either tape in front of your windshield or hold in your hand out the window while driving.
...or better yet...get a passenger and run it to the passenger side...

Verify your base fuel pressure is set at 43psi at idle with vac line off the fuel regulator. Reconnect the vac line to the fuel regulator...should be no less than 38psi...can be a little higher, but it'll drop a bit with the vac line on.

Get in the car and go some place safe with the remote fuel gage hooked up as described above.
Slowly step on the gas until WOT and make sure you are getting one psi more of fuel pressure for each lb of boost.
If you start to see KR above 2-3, then get off the peddle!

So if you are at 43psi fuel pressure at idle with line off and then add 12 psi of boost...you should now see 55psi of fuel pressure. (corrected after being scolded) ;-)

If not...then your fuel pump is bad and needs to be replaced ASAP before you blow a head gasket or spin a bearing.....or just completely grenade the motor....

If it really is the orignal fuel pump...replace it anyway...its on borrowed time and not worth the risk.


...and buy an Alkycontrol kit too...:biggrin:

 

[pacecarta]

Verify your base fuel pressure is set at 43psi at idle with vac line off the fuel regulator.

So if you are at 38psi fuel pressure at idle and then add 12 psi of boost...you should now see 50psi of fuel pressure.

all this posting and reading and you still dont understand 1:1?


base or 'static' fuel pressure is the pressure with line off the regulator
if you set base FP at 43psi then connec the reference hose at idle under high vac the fuel pressure will drop from static approx 1 psi for every 2 in/hg of VAC (the conversion for in/hg to psi is aprox 1/2) , with 18in/hg vac present at idle pressure should drop 9psi but it usually doesnt drop that low with a hotwired upgraded fuel pump because the increased volume overwhelms the stock return line so 36-38line on pressure is norm at idle.

that reference line (hose) affects the fuel pressure both with vac and pressure at a 1:1 ratio , once you are at 0psi (no boost) you are at base Fuel pressure (43psi)
if you are running 12 psi boost the Fuel Pressure should rise 12 psi and be 55psi (base 43 +12=55)

 

[meanchicken]

all this posting and reading and you still dont understand 1:1?

base or 'static' fuel pressure is the pressure with line off the regulator
if you set base FP at 43psi then connec the reference hose at idle under high vac the fuel pressure will drop from static approx 1 psi for every 2 in/hg of VAC (the conversion for in/hg to psi is aprox 1/2) , with 18in/hg vac present at idle pressure should drop 9psi but it usually doesnt drop that low with a hotwired upgraded fuel pump because the increased volume overwhelms the stock return line so 36-38line on pressure is norm at idle.

that reference line (hose) affects the fuel pressure both with vac and pressure at a 1:1 ratio , once you are at 0psi (no boost) you are at base Fuel pressure (43psi)
if you are running 12 psi boost the Fuel Pressure should rise 12 psi and be 55psi (base 43 +12=55)

LOL
Gawd thank you for catching that:redface:...I typed it in a rush cuz I wanted to show how smart I am....didn't mean to start at 38psi in my example of simple addition...

On the line on vs line off drop...Hotwored or not, I've never seen my idel fuel pressure below 38psi once line off is set at 43psi...that's just what I assumed was normal...and I always start cjhecking things when I see it below 38psi.

Now... I have always noticed a larger drop in fuel pressure at idle when everything is all good and hot vs. cold, so I always set/check my fuel pressure when everything is good and hot.

 

[hiboom]

tune

I think the last thing I would do would be put that car on a dyno and beat on it some more.get a few of your issues worked out first and your car healthy enough to dyno it.your money will be better spent making mods to the car to monitor what is currently going on with the engine and learning what the reading mean and make adjustments to it.knowing this and learning, the tune will take care of it's self.