home alky kit?

[Boy Buick85]

Lee sprayed before the turbo there are one or two kool articles on the before black website on diy alky. I have a few buddys that have done it for a long time . there are pros and cons for both

 

[Jerryl]

Lee sprayed before the turbo there are one or two kool articles on the before black website on diy alky. I have a few buddys that have done it for a long time . there are pros and cons for both

About time you got back on the board. :tongue:
Agree, pro's and cons to both.

Pro's to DIY - Upfront purchase $$
Cons; Tuning time, chip re-programming time (to name a few)

Pro's of the PAC - Seamless integration, enough data to get the TT chip right.
Con's of the PAC - Upfront $$

I am a paying customer like all of you, and I am just trying to safe you a few headaches.
This discussion is like asking; Flat Tappet or Roller cam?

Summary;
So, IMO, upfront purchase cost is the single biggest deciding factor, but, the cost savings will be QUICKLY diminished by the total tuning time and many other implementation headaches.
Remember this; None of these cars run worth a crap without the right chip/code. That means EVERTHING ties together and TurboTweak has this data for the HA's with the PAC!

DIY systems work very well, but it may take 5 months (example) to get it running correctly, vs 1 week for the PAC.

My $0.02 ----- Be cool!

 

[1dollardog]

About time you got back on the board. :tongue:
Agree, pro's and cons to both.

Pro's to DIY - Upfront purchase $$
Cons; Tuning time, chip re-programming time (to name a few)

Pro's of the PAC - Seamless integration, enough data to get the TT chip right.
Con's of the PAC - Upfront $$

I am a paying customer like all of you, and I am just trying to safe you a few headaches.
This discussion is like asking; Flat Tappet or Roller cam?

Summary;
So, IMO, upfront purchase cost is the single biggest deciding factor, but, the cost savings will be QUICKLY diminished by the total tuning time and many other implementation headaches.
Remember this; None of these cars run worth a crap without the right chip/code. That means EVERTHING ties together and TurboTweak has this data for the HA's with the PAC!

DIY systems work very well, but it may take 5 months (example) to get it running correctly, vs 1 week for the PAC.

My $0.02 ----- Be cool!

For a novice such as myself I think the DIY kit is the way to go (for now since I already have 99% of the parts on hand). I'll probably never have the car at the track and I don't exactly street race but I do like to feel good acceleration under my butt when I ask for it. There is no where that I am going with this car that someone hasn't already been. All the hard work is done we just have to look for it and utilize it. I have had many ideas floating around in my head just to find out that someone has already acted on the same idea and I have also encountered many things that were so simple yet incredably clever that left me saying "why didn't I think of that".

 

[Jerryl]

For a novice such as myself I think the DIY kit is the way to go (for now since I already have 99% of the parts on hand). I'll probably never have the car at the track and I don't exactly street race but I do like to feel good acceleration under my butt when I ask for it. There is no where that I am going with this car that someone hasn't already been. All the hard work is done we just have to look for it and utilize it. I have had many ideas floating around in my head just to find out that someone has already acted on the same idea and I have also encountered many things that were so simple yet incredably clever that left me saying "why didn't I think of that".

Ever thought about running the car on E85 and just "mist" the alky into the intake?

 

[1dollardog]

Ever thought about running the car on E85 and just "mist" the alky into the intake?

None of my local stations carry E85 yet. I'm sure it has to be in the area somewhere but it isn't readily available here yet. 93 Octane is everywhere though for around $2.15ish/gal. I haven't read much on E85 so what are the pro's to running it?

 

[BRAD_PADGETT]

None of my local stations carry E85 yet. I'm sure it has to be in the area somewhere but it isn't readily available here yet. 93 Octane is everywhere though for around $2.15ish/gal. I haven't read much on E85 so what are the pro's to running it?

The advantage of e85 is that it is 85% ethanol which helps cool the intake fuel and allows higher boost. The Razor methanol kit is alot better but is more expensive. I believe Esinger said it right- Race gas and low methanol or 93 octane and alot of methanol. Esinger is dead right on and I back this up based on experience. Take care- brad

 

[charlief1]

The only thing Brad left off is you need a 30 percent bigger injector to compensate for the exrta fuel you need to burn.

 

[1dollardog]

Seems like many people have their own alky mix. Besides a safety concern, Is there a reason you wouldn't inject race gas through the alky kit? Seems like if you set it to come on at lets say 10psi, thats when you would need the added fuel. I'm sure this probably wouldn't aid in the cooling process though would it.

 

[Jerryl]

Seems like many people have their own alky mix. Besides a safety concern, Is there a reason you wouldn't inject race gas through the alky kit? Seems like if you set it to come on at lets say 10psi, thats when you would need the added fuel. I'm sure this probably wouldn't aid in the cooling process though would it.

There is a little more involved than that.
First off, “most” HA cars I know off, run the ALKYCONTROL kit.
The pump in this kit does not tolerate race fuel, or oils.
As far as mix; 100% Meth has proven to have the biggest benefit overall.

Secondly, the PAC kit starts spraying at 4.5PSI, out of the box.
So, when you need the fuel at 10 psi example, it is already in the cylinders.

Thirdly, say you add an alky injection system, either DIY, or brand XXXX.
How much is the system spraying, at a given rpm/boost range?
Enter “TurboTweak” ……… he has the data for the PAC, AND, for the HA.
You can also add an aftermarket ECM and program the fueling, but one thing is for sure;
Unless the fueling is correct, the car will not maximize its potential, and no car can get the fuel correct “all the time”. That is why we have the ability to add “closed loop WB correction”.

Just so you know; I am in NO WAY trying to discourage you or anyone else from making your own kit. Matter of fact, working on a HA is all about developing what works for you. There is nothing wrong with a DIY kit, in fact, they work very well.
The biggest difference however is the “progressive injection”, which smoothes out the car.

For a track car where the throttle is "on/off", the DIY is great as there is not much worry about transitional fueling.
For daily driving and/or part throttle boost, etc, the progressive system is the winner. Depends on your goals, budget, knowledge, and patience.

Good luck!

 

[1dollardog]

Just obtaining knowledge. Thanks. Where does one actually purchace 100% meth?

 

[boostmaster]

DIY Kit

There is a little more involved than that.
First off, “most” HA cars I know off, run the ALKYCONTROL kit.
The pump in this kit does not tolerate race fuel, or oils.
As far as mix; 100% Meth has proven to have the biggest benefit overall.

:

Your right most but not all. I have successfully ran my own alky kit for more than 5yrs. And have run mid 12's on pump gas and alky. While I do think the progressive timing may be suitable for street use IMO at the strip it has no affect whatsoever since your going WOT all the time.

Now I can tell you this even on the street I have no problem with bog because my kit is tuned to come on only at the level when I usually get knock anywhere between 16-18psi. So my hobs switch is set to come on at 15psi and by the time it hits the nozzle "no knock".

The one thing I did most to eliminate bog was experiment with the nozzle size and pump pressure, theses 2 are the most important factors if you don't go progressive. On the other hand, if you want, every kit maker will sell the prgressive timer separately (I plan on buying one) to give you a little flexability in the future.

The way I made my kit is with a shureflow pump, one jaustable hobs set to come on at 15psi, this how my kit is made.

1 alcohol solenoid that opens simotaneously with the pump activation

2qt plastic container that is pressurized from a hose from the intake (helps evacuate the acky from the bottle) (this hose also pressurizes the hobs switch)

Rubber fuel hose 1/4" from jug to alky pump mounted on frame below front bumper

30" teflon line braided from Earls plumming, runs from pump to solenoid

40" teflon line braided line from Earls plumming, runs from solenoid to nozzle

10GPH nozzle mounted in the turbo adapter pointing up towards the incoming airstream.
(sorry don't have any pics I'm overseas right now)

The wiring is a little complex and this is where the custom kits really have the greatest benefit,. If you install it and it don't work you can always call for tech support.

I have 3 relays all n/c, 2 activate from the hobbs switch and 1 activate from the alky solenoid. When the switch sees 15psi it opens both switches 1) activates the pump, the other the alcky solenoid. When the alky solenoid receives a signal to open it power the "Power Injection" light on the dash. That's how I know that my system is pretty accurate, when I don't see that light on I know somethings wrong cause it won't activate until the last component in the system receives a signal.

I can also test my system by across the hobbs while the engine is idling to see if it boggs (another benefit from the prefabbed kits)

That's my set up total cost about 200.00. But much more complex then the average DIY kit. So if your not that up on the electrical stuff do yourself a favor and take the easier way out.

Every vender that makes a kit has something that I like about them over the other but I just wanted to make my own kit. And at the time that I did there where'nt many to choose from.

Oh yeah! As mentioned before get yourself a good chip. Shout out to Turbo Tweak!!!

Sorry for writing such a long post but that's the only way to explain it.

Good Luck, Pete

 

[boostmaster]

A couple of other things I forgot and one that I must clarify is that I also use a series of check valves.

One so that I am not pulling alky from may container when not under boost and the other so that after my solenoid closes all the alky does not drain back so my alky line stays primed all the time.

Also I should note that I usually don't see any knock until about 16psi some days a little earlier (around 15psi never any lower than that) so the key is to get the alky going before the knock occurs. So in actuality my pump is set to come on about 13-14psi so by the time I start to get knock usually1-3 counts the alky's kickin in.

I can tell you this, it may not be a progressive kit but as fast as the boost comes up on my car I don't need progressive. I set the pump for the volume that I need to manage knock at about 20-22psi and control the fuel from my chip and fuel pressure regulator. Nothing else to worry about. When I use race fuel my settings remain the same I just adjust fuel pressure. It makes it a little better cause I can run even leaner with race fuel. I set it and forget it.

Hope that clears things up for some of you.

 

[TURBOPOWERED68]

The first fancy one I found on the WWW

The sloppy one on graph paper I came up with but I never used it. I went to a PAC instead.