high volume front covers

Search Earl Brown & he has a great writeup. Its on the other board under Tech articles but I've seen it here as well many times. Really makes it easy with his info!!
 
Be VERY careful with aftermarket timing covers. I have had more than 70% of them BAD. Here are the things to watch for, in my experience.
1) Oil passages COMPLETELY blocked
2) Cam sensor to oil pump alignment problems. They machine them at different angles. Check this BEFORE you spend any time on the timing cover. Slide the oil pump drive gear (long one) into the cover, then slide a cam sensor into the top. Watch the two interface. It should slide in with no interference. (remove the o-ring on the sensor to make it easier)
3) Gear cavity way too deep to get a thrust clearance of .002" or less. I've had the gears sit flush with the cover. Add a .007-.009"" gasket, and that is your thrust clearance. (BAD!!!) You have to machine the cover down, to get the gears to stick out of the cover aprox. .006", then shim the filter adaptor to net you .001"-.0015" thrust. It is very hard to get the clerances just right. It will take you 3-4 hours of fiddling/grinding to get a timing cover set-up just right. And that is if you are good at it.;)
 
Add number 4 "bad thing" with these POS covers:

4) Front seal must be retained with screws or whatever, as they do pop out.:mad:
 
Nick Micale said:
Add number 4 "bad thing" with these POS covers:

4) Front seal must be retained with screws or whatever, as they do pop out.:mad:
Click to expand...

One would think that it would take quite a bit of blow by for that to happen. I've used aftermarket covers before but never had that problem.
 
Aftermarket vs Orriginal

Knowone has posted yet how to tell the differance between the orriginal & aftermarket front covers!

This would be some usefull information to people who bought a car and isn't sure whats on it..

I had an aftermarket one on my old cars engine and had to find out the hard way that it was junk and leaking like hell. After trying to fix it twice I ended up installing my old stock one and never had a problem after that. At that time I never really looked at them both to see if there was a differance..


Scot W.
 
turbofabricator said:
Be VERY careful with aftermarket timing covers. I have had more than 70% of them BAD. Here are the things to watch for, in my experience.
1) Oil passages COMPLETELY blocked
2) Cam sensor to oil pump alignment problems. They machine them at different angles. Check this BEFORE you spend any time on the timing cover. Slide the oil pump drive gear (long one) into the cover, then slide a cam sensor into the top. Watch the two interface. It should slide in with no interference. (remove the o-ring on the sensor to make it easier)
3) Gear cavity way too deep to get a thrust clearance of .002" or less. I've had the gears sit flush with the cover. Add a .007-.009"" gasket, and that is your thrust clearance. (BAD!!!) You have to machine the cover down, to get the gears to stick out of the cover aprox. .006", then shim the filter adaptor to net you .001"-.0015" thrust. It is very hard to get the clerances just right. It will take you 3-4 hours of fiddling/grinding to get a timing cover set-up just right. And that is if you are good at it.;)
Click to expand...


I have crossed all these bridges and a couple more. Also just last week found out some do not have champer at the cam sensor hole. Overall I can correct all the problems but the cam sensor oil pump shaft alignment. The GM covers are just about as bad as the china crap but cost 3 times more. The covers
that have china stamped on the back seem to be the better ones.
 
Nasty Wendy said:
One would think that it would take quite a bit of blow by for that to happen. I've used aftermarket covers before but never had that problem.
Click to expand...

We have used them before too, and only lately have we had this problem.:eek:

One was a 9 sec. GN running about 23-25 psi boost, and the other a 10.0 car not over 20 psi.

Fortunately TA is machining a front cover for V-6's that will be "matched" to the original Buick blueprints [except for the external oil seal because that is the way they are now being cast.]. We are discussing a way to accomplish seal retention, and also a "racing blueprinted" option, both complete and bare.

The machining tolerances will be much closer than even the original factory covers.:)

One serious problem that is being corrected is the cavity clearances for the pump side clearance. This MUST be done right the first time, or it will never give proper flow or pressure. After TA examined many China and Taiwan covers, this varied from bad to horrible.:mad:

Not sure of the pricing at this time, but it will be more than the off-shore machined junk, and close to what GM was selling their original cover.
 
Nick Micale said:
We have used them before too, and only lately have we had this problem.:eek:

One was a 9 sec. GN running about 23-25 psi boost, and the other a 10.0 car not over 20 psi.

Fortunately TA is machining a front cover for V-6's that will be "matched" to the original Buick blueprints [except for the external oil seal because that is the way they are now being cast.]. We are discussing a way to accomplish seal retention, and also a "racing blueprinted" option, both complete and bare.

The machining tolerances will be much closer than even the original factory covers.:)

One serious problem that is being corrected is the cavity clearances for the pump side clearance. This MUST be done right the first time, or it will never give proper flow or pressure. After TA examined many China and Taiwan covers, this varied from bad to horrible.:mad:

Not sure of the pricing at this time, but it will be more than the off-shore machined junk, and close to what GM was selling their original cover.
Click to expand...


Ahhhh I see. Somewhere lately they've taken a bad turn in making them. I have several old ones I guess I'll be holding on to. Good to hear that TA is gioing to make a good cover for our cars.
 
Nick Micale said:
We have used them before too, and only lately have we had this problem.:eek:

One was a 9 sec. GN running about 23-25 psi boost, and the other a 10.0 car not over 20 psi.

Fortunately TA is machining a front cover for V-6's that will be "matched" to the original Buick blueprints [except for the external oil seal because that is the way they are now being cast.]. We are discussing a way to accomplish seal retention, and also a "racing blueprinted" option, both complete and bare.

The machining tolerances will be much closer than even the original factory covers.:)

One serious problem that is being corrected is the cavity clearances for the pump side clearance. This MUST be done right the first time, or it will never give proper flow or pressure. After TA examined many China and Taiwan covers, this varied from bad to horrible.:mad:

Not sure of the pricing at this time, but it will be more than the off-shore machined junk, and close to what GM was selling their original cover.
Click to expand...

Nick,
I would be nice if TA would machine the covers and inatall a steel pump insert to correct most of the design/manufacturing flaws. I've always wanted to just machine the whole pump cavity off and install a cast iron/steel external pump in the stock location. It would take some doing, but is possible. Even a thin steel insert for the pump cavity walls would correct the above issues. Probably not worth the engineering/machining costs, though.
 
scot w. said:
Knowone has posted yet how to tell the differance between the orriginal & aftermarket front covers!

This would be some usefull information to people who bought a car and isn't sure whats on it..

I had an aftermarket one on my old cars engine and had to find out the hard way that it was junk and leaking like hell. After trying to fix it twice I ended up installing my old stock one and never had a problem after that. At that time I never really looked at them both to see if there was a differance..


Scot W.
Click to expand...


EASY WAY!! Stock cover the seal goes in from Inside & aftermarket the seal goes in from Outside!
 
scot w. said:
Knowone has posted yet how to tell the differance between the orriginal & aftermarket front covers!

This would be some usefull information to people who bought a car and isn't sure whats on it..


Scot W.
Click to expand...

The after market ones take a lip seal which is inserted into the front side of the cover. The O.E.M. GM ones use a fabric seal which inserts into a flanged lip of the timing cover. Not sure if GM ever up graded the desing to a lip seal which can be installed from the front side of the cover.

Felpro makes a seal which can be installed inside the factory cover. In order to install this seal one must knock the flanged lip out of the factory cover which retains the fabric seal. Then if you ever nead to replace the seal, the cover must be removed, because it is inside the engines timing cover not on the outside.

The cover I got from DLS does not leak even when maxing out the boost to the TSM legal limit:D . Very pleased with the High Volume cover I got from Dan at DLS which allows me to run the taller high volume gears.
 
SNOWBIRD said:
My DLS cover dry as a bone
Click to expand...

Uh-Oh!.......Better ADD some oil FAST!!!.........Your pan is empty. It's a Buick, it SUPPOSED to leak oil. That's why Buick never made T.V. sets...........They couldn't figure out HOW to make them leak oil.:biggrin:
 
Nick Micale said:
We have used them before too, and only lately have we had this problem.:eek:

One was a 9 sec. GN running about 23-25 psi boost, and the other a 10.0 car not over 20 psi.

Fortunately TA is machining a front cover for V-6's that will be "matched" to the original Buick blueprints [except for the external oil seal because that is the way they are now being cast.]. We are discussing a way to accomplish seal retention, and also a "racing blueprinted" option, both complete and bare.

The machining tolerances will be much closer than even the original factory covers.:)

One serious problem that is being corrected is the cavity clearances for the pump side clearance. This MUST be done right the first time, or it will never give proper flow or pressure. After TA examined many China and Taiwan covers, this varied from bad to horrible.:mad:

Not sure of the pricing at this time, but it will be more than the off-shore machined junk, and close to what GM was selling their original cover.
Click to expand...

Nick,

How about the covers that TA is selling currently? How much work do they need? I couldn't bring myself to spend the $450 they wanted for their ready-to-go cover so I bought the parts from them instead (front cover, oil pump cover, plate, shims and gaskets). The person I talked to on the phone said that the plain cover I bought from them is the same one they use in their $450 setup and they haven't had any complaints. That's not to say it doesn't need some work, however.

Thanks,
Jim
 
Sam Colalillo said:
Felpro makes a seal which can be installed inside the factory cover. In order to install this seal one must knock the flanged lip out of the factory cover which retains the fabric seal.

I just got 2 old GM covers & 2 sets of the Felpro gaskets. So I need to knock the lip out of them? Any further details please? Didnt know that altho I havent looked at them really its all in the "Pile to Do" area. Thanks!
Click to expand...
 
turbojimmy said:
Nick,
...... The person I talked to on the phone said that the plain cover I bought from them is the same one they use in their $450 setup and they haven't had any complaints. That's not to say it doesn't need some work, however.

Thanks, Jim
Click to expand...

The bare cover is the same but does not have the internal passages modified. Of course, you must also set pump cover [filter housing] clearances.
 
Again...

I'm puzzled, if TA is going to the trouble of a reproduction front cover, why haven't they considered a gear-rotor pump front cover?
Most of the leg work has been done and my understanding was finding someone with the capacity to produce the cover was needed.
This must have crossed TA's desk at some point.
Dan's cover is a good setup (i have one) but I'd be a much happy camper with better technology. :confused:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

T
Champion head covers
Replies
0
Views
153
turbobooster
T
A
Info on PTB 300-5469
Replies
5
Views
617
anthonysgauthier
A
Roy L.
flatten the thrust surface on the front cover?
2
Replies
23
Views
2K
earlbrown
E
HalfDozIN
ISO passenger motor mount, valve covers/valve cover spacers
Replies
0
Views
203
HalfDozIN
HalfDozIN
spross86
Valve cover correct ones?
Replies
7
Views
871
earlbrown
E
Top