Help with Starter Diagnose & Removal

[TED73]

I believe my original starter need to be replaced. The car is not turning over as I crank the key. As I"m trying to remove this large engineering marvel we call a starter, I want to make sure it is the problem. I checked the battery and it is fully charged. I did measure voltage to the wires at the starter using a volt meter and was good(I think?). Are there any fuses that I should check? I did use the hammer thing and nothing.

If it is the starter, I was able to remove the bolts. Does the transmission lines need to be removed? I was able to remove the cable from one of the leads but can I remove the starter before removing the other wire (for easy access)?

As for starter types, what additional work do I have to do if I purchase the mini starter? how about the LT1 starter? How about the LT4 starter?

I've been working on removing the starter this morning and I just need a break. Any help is GREATLY appreciated.

Thanks,

 

[turbo39151]

Will the car even try to crank? Battery tests at 12v at the terminals? Have you tried to jump the car?

Have you checked the CCCI fuse under the dash? (Have you check the general stuff spark, fuel, air)?

Just want to make sure you're not changing stuff that doesn't need changed...


If you need a new starter the OE starter is easy to remove. Make sure you disconnect the battery first and make sure you don't forget to remove all of the cables from the starter. BTW, it's kinda heavy so make sure you've got a good grip on it when you drop it down.

The mini starter is the way to go IMO it's way lighter and bolts right up.

Neither require any extra steps to remove or install. Just the 2 bolts and re-connecting the wires...

Good Luck.

 

[charlief1]

Once the starter is off then take it to AZ or Oreily's and have it tested. that should answer any questions about whether it's good or not. I've got a mini starter simular to a tilton and am happy about it. See if you can find one on evil bay and you should be ok.

 

[TED73]

I'm going to take your advise & get the battery checked this morning. I better eliminate all the abvious possibilities before tackling the starter. I'll be back w/ the results.

 

[JOELO'S T-TYPE]

Go to the gym too before removing it, some steroids would be nice too!

Im switching to the mini one and I hope to shave at least 3 seconds off of my timeslip, that thing is HEAVYYYY!!!!

Seriously, try to make sure that it is the actual problem before messing with it. Good luck!!

 

[bmackinnon]

It'll come out of there..... BARELY.... w/o moving any trans lines or anything... It will require the correct combination of obscene curse words and flaring temper.... along with the requisite pinched/smashed fingers/bloody knuckles.... yes, it's a PITA.... but it'll come out/go back in....

 

[TED73]

It was after two hours of swearing/cursing when I realized I needed to take a time out and relax where I almost took it out on my kids. I just ended up taking the kids out to an amusement park which was also relaxing. I haven't had a chance to check the battery.

I just can't believe you guys are able to get that thing out with the trans lines in the way!

 

[charlief1]

LOL Just remember I'm an ASE Master so I've delt with PITA starters more than I care to. Once you get it off and think about it a while you'll figure out an easier way to do it. Just remember that if you get a mini starter it will be easier to put it back on.

 

[JOELO'S T-TYPE]

We've all been there, thats why now we can sort of joke about it, not because its easy, just because things are like that. Welcome!

 

[GNXTACY]

I have a brand new LT4 starter for a replacement!

 

[TED73]

So, I finally got a chance to get the battery checked. It was dead and received a replacement for free under the 36-month warranty. I didn't think about the battery since I bought it 29 months ago.

Anyway, I get home and installed it. Got in the car and NOTHING. WTF??? I waited about 10 seconds and tried it again and it slowly cranked and finally started. I had the car running for about 15 minutes and turned it off. I started the car again to check it and it did start.

Hopefully, when I get home today from work, I'm going to take it out for a ride.....if it starts.

Stay tuned!'

 

[TED73]

Ok, the car was unable to start again, with a new battery. Now, I'm in the process of removal the starter. I was able to disconnect the wire from one terminal. I'm having a hard time disconnecting the purple wire. At first, I thought I might have some slack to get the starter past the trans line but I"m having a difficult time. So, I have to find a way to reach in & disconnect the purple wire. Hopefully, that will enable me to somehow remove the starter.

I prefer not to disconnect the trans lines since the last thing I need is to damage the lines.

Maybe I might make a tutorial about removing the starter w/ photos. I'll see how far I get first.

 

[charlief1]

Ok, the car was unable to start again, with a new battery. Now, I'm in the process of removal the starter. I was able to disconnect the wire from one terminal. I'm having a hard time disconnecting the purple wire. At first, I thought I might have some slack to get the starter past the trans line but I"m having a difficult time. So, I have to find a way to reach in & disconnect the purple wire. Hopefully, that will enable me to somehow remove the starter.

I prefer not to disconnect the trans lines since the last thing I need is to damage the lines.

Maybe I might make a tutorial about removing the starter w/ photos. I'll see how far I get first.

If you do make sure to add it to the how to section. I'm the mod there so make it fairly detailed please. Just a thought.:biggrin:

 

[TED73]

Finally removed the starter last night and was anxious to see if this is the problem. Took it to Autozone last night to get it checked. The starter is fine

I'll probably put it back tonight and maybe check the alternator just in case

Most likely, I'll end up taking it to a shop for further evaluation if it is an electrical issue.

The saga continues.............

 

[azbob]

You have two thirds of the system verified. All that is left is the cables and connections. It sounds as though you are not getting a good contact to start. The new battery and slow turnover are indicative of a cable/connection problem. Since you have gone this far don't pay to have a cable replaced or a connection cleaned.

 

[Smokin-6]

azbob is right, make sure there is no corrosion on the positve cable (look closely where the bolt hooks to the battery) and negative cable. Also make sure it's grounded tight to the block. I have had that problem on many of my cars. Even though it seems tight the corrosion builds up and blocks the metal to metal contact.

 

[charlief1]

If you're still using the factory cables you may need to replace them. If you do, get larger ones. 2 guage would be much better at conducting power to the starter.

 

[TED73]

I started thinking more about the test that autozone did on my starter. Though the starter was spinning, there is no way of knowing if he solenoid is bad or not. The only way from what I was told is to test it when the starter is installed on the car & running.

I decided to purchase a new starter from autozone. I had nothing to loose and I figured why not. The same size, (boat anchor), as my original and I finally finishig installing it. I go to turn the key and now it's not turning over properly. I can hear the solenoid & starter but it's like it's not catching properly to the flywheel.

When I did purchase the starter, it came with some shimms. I'm wondering if I actually need to use the shimms? The new starter is the same as the hold.....no difference. I'm wondering if I did not install it properly!

I'm just taking a break right now since there are so many things going through my mind right now. One is if I blew the engine or threw a bearing rod. It is starting to become nerve-racking.

I guess I'm just venting. Should go & watch some football for a while.

 

[turbo39151]

TED73: You're gonna make yourself crazy. I understand about chasing Electrical issues. (You do know that once you fix it you'll have a flat tire or something right? I always get a residual issue that is completely unrelated to the fixed issue so I'm betting you will too. It's how these cars were designed)

Here's a link to a thread I had on swapping an alternator and having electrical issues. Might help... (Lots of times you can buy a new part that is bad- several times)

Also, I had an issue with my starter shortly after the alternator issue. I purchased a "used" mini- starter off of a board member and it was a way better install. Only weighed a fraction of the stocker. I had tried to swap the solenoid and even with a good solenoid the stocker would bench just fine and would attempt to work when installed on the car but only intermittently. It was easier to just swap it.

BTW, I would highly recommend swapping the wires as well. I had an issue with an explorer I was working on and it had a new battery and starter and would only start intermittently. When I pulled the battery wire, and cut the insulation it was corroded all the way down. I swapped it for a length of brand new 2 gauge and never had an issue again.

Good Luck.

 

[jhanson1750]

This is for refrence and comic relief!
I was having problems with my starter. The GN would start just fine when at the house but when I went to the local car show.....no start. Had to reach under the car and BAM....BAM.....BAM on the starter. Try it, nope BAM....BAM.....BAM try it and it starts. This happened on one of the few times my wife went with me to the show. We got the car home and I was slightly upset. I then get up on Sunday and jack the car. Start to pull the starter and SPARK!!!!SPARK!!!!! Forgot to disconnect the battery. Pull the hot lead off the battery and get back under the car. Get the bolts out of the starter, work the starter back and figure "Well I'm going to change the cable anyway." so I let the starter hang from the battery cable. As I'm trying to get the small wires off the solinoid the stock cable was so corroded the crimped on eye pulls off the battery cable and SMACK!!! In a cosmic attempt by the car gods to protect the bad starter it bounced of my forehead to cushon the blow to the starter. As I got bashed in the head I jumped and then hit my head the second time on the frame. At this point I had TWO nice knots on my head and a headach like you wouldn't believe.

In the end I found the battery cable was in horrible shape. the starter checked out OK but I changed it anyway. Now I have a car that starts great. I have posted how to rewire the starter so the wiring that is left down by the starter is not "hot" at all times.

Change the wire from the battery takes about 20mins to get it through the hold downs. Use number 2 wire, install new battery terminals, clean all electrical connections, ESPECIALLY the grounds. Add a ground from the motor to the frame and check the one off the battery to the body.

Just don't let the starter hang from the wire!!!!!!