HD stock style wastegate or not.

E

evil666

Active Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2004
I have a HD wastegate actuator right now and have alot problems trying to run low boost. I just want to know if I replace the HD wastegate with a regular actuator would there be any performance loss or not at the same level of boost.(For Ex 20psi for 20 psi) What are the advantages and disadvantages of using HD wastegate actuator?

Thanks
Marco

T-Top 86 Grand Nationals (63000km) 109 block with weisco forged pistons and 2 billet center main caps, M&A aluminum heads, roller rockers, port match lower intake ,te63 a.r .82, erson 214/214 cam, razor alky injection, 94 octane, hooker cat back with dyno max ultra flow muffers, kenne bell headers, 60 lbs injectors, extender alky chip with 21/19 timing, with a gen 2 with a LS1 maf,thdp, mease 24 row IC, PTC 3200 stall 9 1/2 convertor, Ron Custom max boost brake module, MT drag radials (275/60/15) , rjc power plate, rjc boost controller, zeitronix wideband, HR motor mounts, Weld Drag Lites with skinnies up front, electric exhaust, hr rear sway bar, no front sway bar, 90/10 lakewood in the front and 50/50 lakewood shocks in the rear with energy suspension poly bushings all over, boxed rear lower control arms, Big mouth cold air with an AFE air filter


BEST E/T= Exhaust closed
60FT=1.48 (foot brake on 4 lbs of boost)
1/8= 6.65 at 100 mph
1/4= 10.83
MPH=105.2 (letting off the gas, car was running to lean, double pumper for next year
 
You should be running two nozzles on the alky system and a single pump should be fine at 20 PSI boost.

As to the WG question, it has to do with spring tension on the diaphram of the WG. You may only get 18 PSI with a stock one.. every car is different.

Me.. i'd run a stock actuator and let an electronic boost controller bleed off higher pressure. That way I can set the boost inside the car from lets say 16 PSI to whatever.

Once you get to really high boost.. like 30 PSI.. thats when you may need the HD to keep enough pressure on the puck.
 
the stock WG.....

is definitely easier to control unless you like blowing away the tires. I used the HD on the TE-60 for a while running up to 30#s w/alchy. but trying to control the boost w/the foot pedal was very difficult and I ended up going back to the stock one running upto 30#s:biggrin:
 
Razor said:
You should be running two nozzles on the alky system and a single pump should be fine at 20 PSI boost.

As to the WG question, it has to do with spring tension on the diaphram of the WG. You may only get 18 PSI with a stock one.. every car is different.

Me.. i'd run a stock actuator and let an electronic boost controller bleed off higher pressure. That way I can set the boost inside the car from lets say 16 PSI to whatever.

Once you get to really high boost.. like 30 PSI.. thats when you may need the HD to keep enough pressure on the puck.
Click to expand...

Thanks Razor, The problem is that the car runs 23psi in first gear, 24 in second and 25 psi in third in cool weather and I can't get the car to run lower boost even with the wastegate hole ported. I want to be able to lower the boost just to make it safer when it comes time for tuning to car. I have the dual nozzle kit but I haven't installed it yet. I just want to make sure that if I use a stock style wastegate or a HD that they both will make the same power at 25 psi boost. I hope by putting a double pumper and the dual nozzle I can get my wideband numbers in the high tens and lower my egt numbers as well.

Thanks for your help,
Marco

T-Top 86 Grand Nationals (63000km) 109 block with weisco forged pistons and 2 billet center main caps, M&A aluminum heads, roller rockers, port match lower intake ,te63 a.r .82, erson 214/214 cam, razor alky injection, 94 octane, hooker cat back with dyno max ultra flow muffers, kenne bell headers, 60 lbs injectors, extender alky chip with 21/19 timing, with a gen 2 with a LS1 maf,thdp, mease 24 row IC, PTC 3200 stall 9 1/2 convertor, Ron Custom max boost brake module, MT drag radials (275/60/15) , rjc power plate, rjc boost controller, zeitronix wideband, HR motor mounts, Weld Drag Lites with skinnies up front, electric exhaust, hr rear sway bar, no front sway bar, 90/10 lakewood in the front and 50/50 lakewood shocks in the rear with energy suspension poly bushings all over, boxed rear lower control arms, Big mouth cold air with an AFE air filter


BEST E/T= Exhaust closed
60FT=1.48 (foot brake on 4 lbs of boost)
1/8= 6.65 at 100 mph
1/4= 10.83
MPH=105.2 (letting off the gas, car was running to lean, double pumper for next year
 
For testing, hook it up tuner style & you should get about 17-19 lbs. It should stay pretty solid. Just a hose from turbo to actuator & see what you get. Thats what I did to start so I knew exactly what the HD was giving me for a baseline.
 
25 psi will be the same power irreguardless of what WG setup your using. 25 psi= 25 PSI.

Your creep is due to boost control issue and improper setting of tension/hole sizing.

So if the hole was ported correctly.. then you need to spend some $$$ on a proper boost controller.

Please extend the arm on the WG.. this should reduce boost or change the actuator. You lean it out at 25 PSI.. you'll melt down the motor.

Sounds to me like your current fuel pump is bad or some other issue getting fuel into the motor. There is a difference between a properly working single intank pump and one thats not properly working.

Hope you see the difference.
 
i see you have the rjc boost controller
any chance you have it in backward??? .., the end that adjusts goes to the wastegate the other end to the turbo , seems simple enough but ive seen it accidentlly installed backwards and what happens is the check ball inside blocks all air from reaching the wastegate and its just like running with the hose off


you say you ported but what size puck do you have in your downpipe that you cant run less than 25

have you tried running the wastegate tuner style , with just a hose straight from the turbo to the wastegate ? if you cant get it to run under 18psi try it without the wasgate connected to the arm if it wont run lower
that way you need a bigger wastegate hole and puck or to go to a larger external gate but i really dont see why you have issues with a te63 even with the stock puck

also have you checked the puck operation to be certain the puck arm isnt seizing up
 
SHADOWII said:
is definitely easier to control unless you like blowing away the tires. I used the HD on the TE-60 for a while running up to 30#s w/alchy. but trying to control the boost w/the foot pedal was very difficult and I ended up going back to the stock one running upto 30#s:biggrin:
Click to expand...

If I got this right the performance of your car was the same with both wastegates at the same boost level.

Thanks
Marco

T-Top 86 Grand Nationals (63000km) 109 block with weisco forged pistons and 2 billet center main caps, M&A aluminum heads, roller rockers, port match lower intake ,te63 a.r .82, erson 214/214 cam, razor alky injection, 94 octane, hooker cat back with dyno max ultra flow muffers, kenne bell headers, 60 lbs injectors, extender alky chip with 21/19 timing, with a gen 2 with a LS1 maf,thdp, mease 24 row IC, PTC 3200 stall 9 1/2 convertor, Ron Custom max boost brake module, MT drag radials (275/60/15) , rjc power plate, rjc boost controller, zeitronix wideband, HR motor mounts, Weld Drag Lites with skinnies up front, electric exhaust, hr rear sway bar, no front sway bar, 90/10 lakewood in the front and 50/50 lakewood shocks in the rear with energy suspension poly bushings all over, boxed rear lower control arms, Big mouth cold air with an AFE air filter


BEST E/T= Exhaust closed
60FT=1.48 (foot brake on 4 lbs of boost)
1/8= 6.65 at 100 mph
1/4= 10.83
MPH=105.2 (letting off the gas, car was running to lean, double pumper for next year
 
Just a Six?? said:
For testing, hook it up tuner style & you should get about 17-19 lbs. It should stay pretty solid. Just a hose from turbo to actuator & see what you get. Thats what I did to start so I knew exactly what the HD was giving me for a baseline.
Click to expand...

Thats the way I have it set up but with the RJC boost controller inbetween. The boost contoller is opened all the way for minimum boost. For curiosity if you just put a hose from the turbo to the wastegate but play with the actuator rod wouldn't the boost settings change?

Thanks
Marco

T-Top 86 Grand Nationals (63000km) 109 block with weisco forged pistons and 2 billet center main caps, M&A aluminum heads, roller rockers, port match lower intake ,te63 a.r .82, erson 214/214 cam, razor alky injection, 94 octane, hooker cat back with dyno max ultra flow muffers, kenne bell headers, 60 lbs injectors, extender alky chip with 21/19 timing, with a gen 2 with a LS1 maf,thdp, mease 24 row IC, PTC 3200 stall 9 1/2 convertor, Ron Custom max boost brake module, MT drag radials (275/60/15) , rjc power plate, rjc boost controller, zeitronix wideband, HR motor mounts, Weld Drag Lites with skinnies up front, electric exhaust, hr rear sway bar, no front sway bar, 90/10 lakewood in the front and 50/50 lakewood shocks in the rear with energy suspension poly bushings all over, boxed rear lower control arms, Big mouth cold air with an AFE air filter


BEST E/T= Exhaust closed
60FT=1.48 (foot brake on 4 lbs of boost)
1/8= 6.65 at 100 mph
1/4= 10.83
MPH=105.2 (letting off the gas, car was running to lean, double pumper for next year
 
get the rjc out of the loop !!!!!!!!!!!
hose straight from turbo to the wastegate actuator and report back

and yes shorting the rod will change the boost
start with it adjusted so its about 1/8inch to pull it to hook onto the puck arm
 
pacecarta said:
i see you have the rjc boost controller
any chance you have it in backward??? .., the end that adjusts goes to the wastegate the other end to the turbo , seems simple enough but ive seen it accidentlly installed backwards and what happens is the check ball inside blocks all air from reaching the wastegate and its just like running with the hose off


you say you ported but what size puck do you have in your downpipe that you cant run less than 25

have you tried running the wastegate tuner style , with just a hose straight from the turbo to the wastegate ? if you cant get it to run under 18psi try it without the wasgate connected to the arm if it wont run lower
that way you need a bigger wastegate hole and puck or to go to a larger external gate but i really dont see why you have issues with a te63 even with the stock puck

also have you checked the puck operation to be certain the puck arm isnt seizing up
Click to expand...

The RJC boost controller is put on correctly, and the puck arm is not seized at all. The size of the thdp puck is a inch and 3/8. I just bought a pt67/76 bb turbo from turbotwister on this board tonight that has 14 psi boost wastegate actuator. I hope I will have an easier time controlling boost now.

Thanks for all your help guys.
Marco

T-Top 86 Grand Nationals (63000km) 109 block with weisco forged pistons and 2 billet center main caps, M&A aluminum heads, roller rockers, port match lower intake ,te63 a.r .82, erson 214/214 cam, razor alky injection, 94 octane, hooker cat back with dyno max ultra flow muffers, kenne bell headers, 60 lbs injectors, extender alky chip with 21/19 timing, with a gen 2 with a LS1 maf,thdp, mease 24 row IC, PTC 3200 stall 9 1/2 convertor, Ron Custom max boost brake module, MT drag radials (275/60/15) , rjc power plate, rjc boost controller, zeitronix wideband, HR motor mounts, Weld Drag Lites with skinnies up front, electric exhaust, hr rear sway bar, no front sway bar, 90/10 lakewood in the front and 50/50 lakewood shocks in the rear with energy suspension poly bushings all over, boxed rear lower control arms, Big mouth cold air with an AFE air filter


BEST E/T= Exhaust closed
60FT=1.48 (foot brake on 4 lbs of boost)
1/8= 6.65 at 100 mph
1/4= 10.83
MPH=105.2 (letting off the gas, car was running to lean, double pumper for next year
 
pacecarta said:
get the rjc out of the loop !!!!!!!!!!!
hose straight from turbo to the wastegate actuator and report back

and yes shorting the rod will change the boost
start with it adjusted so its about 1/8inch to pull it to hook onto the puck arm
Click to expand...

Sometimes there are those that dont want to do what experts tell them to do. Guess its easier to swap turbo's and wastegate than to simply hook a hose from the compressor to WG and re-adjust the rod tension..

God forbid there is an issue with the 50 dollar boost controller. :redface:
 
Razor said:
Sometimes there are those that dont want to do what experts tell them to do. Guess its easier to swap turbo's and wastegate than to simply hook a hose from the compressor to WG and re-adjust the rod tension..

God forbid there is an issue with the 50 dollar boost controller. :redface:
Click to expand...

You said it before I could. Some people just don't like help even after they ask for it?
 
Look guys I am sorry if you guys think you have wasted your time trying to give me a helping hand. My intentions was not to get you guys angry at me and you havn't wasted your time, cause you have educated me on some stuff. For ex: I thought running tuner style with the RJC controller inbetween with it opened all the way was the same as just having a hose between the turbo and wastegate. Theres a few things I want to say. First of all I didn't buy this other turbo just to solve the problem of over boosting. I always wanted a 67mm turbo for my set-up which was in my plans for the future. But it just happened that someone had one for sale and it was exactly what I wanted. I always wanted to try a bb turbo for quicker street spool up and this one game up at the same time that I was asking for advice. If it wasn't for this I was for sure going to keep my TE63 and try the advice you guys have given me. Second of all, even if I would of liked to take the car out for a spin and try the tricks that I was told I couldn't. The car is stored for winter and will only be coming out in may. If I would of have started this tread in the summer time I would have went to try out these tests imediately. I am sorry again to those people who think that I have wasted their time.

Thanks again for all your help guys.
Marco

T-Top 86 Grand Nationals (63000km) 109 block with weisco forged pistons and 2 billet center main caps, M&A aluminum heads, roller rockers, port match lower intake ,te63 a.r .82, erson 214/214 cam, razor alky injection, 94 octane, hooker cat back with dyno max ultra flow muffers, kenne bell headers, 60 lbs injectors, extender alky chip with 21/19 timing, with a gen 2 with a LS1 maf,thdp, mease 24 row IC, PTC 3200 stall 9 1/2 convertor, Ron Custom max boost brake module, MT drag radials (275/60/15) , rjc power plate, rjc boost controller, zeitronix wideband, HR motor mounts, Weld Drag Lites with skinnies up front, electric exhaust, hr rear sway bar, no front sway bar, 90/10 lakewood in the front and 50/50 lakewood shocks in the rear with energy suspension poly bushings all over, boxed rear lower control arms, Big mouth cold air with an AFE air filter


BEST E/T= Exhaust closed
60FT=1.48 (foot brake on 4 lbs of boost)
1/8= 6.65 at 100 mph
1/4= 10.83
MPH=105.2 (letting off the gas, car was running to lean, double pumper for next year
 
vacuum 6 said:
Evil666,

How lean was it running? Any knock?
Click to expand...

The car's af ratios went as high as 12.3 to 12.4 but it only showed 1 kr which was on a shift. The EGT went as high as 1786 degrees F.

Thanks,
Marco

T-Top 86 Grand Nationals (63000km) 109 block with weisco forged pistons and 2 billet center main caps, M&A aluminum heads, roller rockers, port match lower intake ,te63 a.r .82, erson 214/214 cam, razor alky injection, 94 octane, hooker cat back with dyno max ultra flow muffers, kenne bell headers, 60 lbs injectors, extender alky chip with 21/19 timing, with a gen 2 with a LS1 maf,thdp, mease 24 row IC, PTC 3200 stall 9 1/2 convertor, Ron Custom max boost brake module, MT drag radials (275/60/15) , rjc power plate, rjc boost controller, zeitronix wideband, HR motor mounts, Weld Drag Lites with skinnies up front, electric exhaust, hr rear sway bar, no front sway bar, 90/10 lakewood in the front and 50/50 lakewood shocks in the rear with energy suspension poly bushings all over, boxed rear lower control arms, Big mouth cold air with an AFE air filter


BEST E/T= Exhaust closed
60FT=1.48 (foot brake on 4 lbs of boost)
1/8= 6.65 at 100 mph
1/4= 10.83
MPH=105.2 (letting off the gas, car was running to lean, double pumper for next year
 
vacuum 6 said:
What's the reason for running two with this setup?
Click to expand...

Car runs mid 6's in the 1/8. At that power level the extra nozzle shouldnt be an issue.

Plus he's leaning it out.. the extra nozzle will help with that.

Still wont solve his bad in-tank pump or fuel system issue.. but keep it from popping the motor.
 
Razor said:
Car runs mid 6's in the 1/8. At that power level the extra nozzle shouldnt be an issue.
Click to expand...


Shouldn’t be an issue? Meaning tuning it?

I'm confused. My ride runs 99.xx in the 1/8 with one nozzle and blue knob at 6 :D.
 
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