Got a nitrous kit!

Julio

Where did you inject your nitrous? TB,plenum? Did you spray for spool or mist it all the way?
Wet or dry shot?
 
Sorry, didnt click as far as shutting it down at 8psi. So, this poses another question... Is that the desired boost at launch or will the boost increase after the spray shuts off...(kinda like a bumper to start the boost)?
 
TT/Ameasap said:
Sorry, didnt click as far as shutting it down at 8psi. So, this poses another question... Is that the desired boost at launch or will the boost increase after the spray shuts off...(kinda like a bumper to start the boost)?
Click to expand...

The boost should continue to increase after the nitrous has started the turbo spooling. How quick the boost continues to rise after the nitrous has shut down will depend on the tuneup. If the tuneup is wrong, the rpm rise could flatten or even drop after the nitrous has shut down.
 
DonWG said:
The boost should continue to increase after the nitrous has started the turbo spooling. How quick the boost continues to rise after the nitrous has shut down will depend on the tuneup. If the tuneup is wrong, the rpm rise could flatten or even drop after the nitrous has shut down.
Click to expand...

What I've found is, if the tuneup is wrong, it will affect the rpm rise rate much more drastically than the map/boost rise rate after nitrous shut down.
 
six shooter said:
Are we talking wrong to the rich or lean side ?
Click to expand...

Either way. You'll need to search for that mixture that will give you that smooth rise in your particular case. Sometimes that mixture may not be a straight line value too. Explanation below. Don't forget ignition timing too. Although I've found the a/f mixture curve to be the important factor.

Start out on the rich side at nitrous shut off and work lean while looking for changes in the rpm datalog. You may get small lean spikes at the point of nitrous shut down depending on the volumes of your systems plumbing. Just don't let the lean spike get too lean. A lean spike of very short duration shouldn't be a problem. I use a delay box that will keep the fuel side of the system on for a programmed amount of time to control the lean spike due to the accumulative affect of the nitrous gas side of the system pressuring down at the shut off point. I cover that affect in detail in the 'Advancement of Fuel Delivery?' thread.
Even with the use of the delay box, I still allow a short, small lean spike during nitrous shut down. This stradegy has given me the smoothest rpm rise at nitrous shut down. The lean spike will read on the datalog differently from one pass to the next, but generally falls between 12.2:1 to 13.3:1. It is a very short lean spike. You can see a perfect example of it in the datalog examples I posted in the 'Advancement of Fuel Delivery?' thread, post number 201.

With a single nozzle system where the plumbing after the solenoids is usually very short, I'm sure you're not going to be able to finely tune the nitrous system shut off lean spike, if at all. You may not even get a lean spike.
 
Little eye candy!

Pic1TTA.jpg


Pic2TTA.jpg
 
I mounted mine in the spare tire area. I'll see if I can find any old pixs.
 
I will get more spots / hits without the gas "on" because I run 150hp shot;) But I would love to see a pic of how you mounted it in the spare area!
 
How bout exhuast housing sizing.

Meaning the .63 exhuast housing has a flow limitation. So lets say that limitation is 700 flywheel. If your at 600 flywheel and you shoot 150 HP worth of nitrous, meaning you want to flow 750 flywheel worth of air.. your going to get a lot of back pressure. This back pressure will lift your heads.

So while eveyone worries about how much nitrous to shoot.. you need to be able and evacuate the air out of the motor. Your headers, crossover, turbo exhuast housing, downpipe, exhuast system have to be and handle your HP target. There is no free lunch.. just broken parts.

Does this make sense?
 
Subscribing to this thread. I have a cheater kit on my TBI car, was gonna but a NOS nozzle and use all the other parts on the turbo 6 in my buick wagon. Would like to see how you make out.
 
I was drug for 3months because of my head porter. Champions are on the way now. Should be a few weeks before it's complete tho, but I will update everyone.
 
Razor said:
How bout exhuast housing sizing.

Meaning the .63 exhuast housing has a flow limitation. So lets say that limitation is 700 flywheel. If your at 600 flywheel and you shoot 150 HP worth of nitrous, meaning you want to flow 750 flywheel worth of air.. your going to get a lot of back pressure. This back pressure will lift your heads.

So while eveyone worries about how much nitrous to shoot.. you need to be able and evacuate the air out of the motor. Your headers, crossover, turbo exhuast housing, downpipe, exhuast system have to be and handle your HP target. There is no free lunch.. just broken parts.

Does this make sense?
Click to expand...

You're not moving another 150 HP worth of air, you're moving another 150 HP worth of nitrous. HP per volume is different for nitrous than atmosphere. To grossly over simplify:

If 1 CFM of atmosphere makes 1 HP, then .6 CFM of nitrous makes 1 HP.

700 CFM of atmoshpere makes 700 HP, 420 CFM of nitrous makes 700 HP.

Same power, same amount of gasoline being burned, but overall intake volume is less.

In the Buick example of 700 flywheel being limited by the exhaust housing it would look like this:

700 CFM of atmosphere makes 700 HP, or the limit of the exhaust housing.
You are making 600 HP, so you are moving 600 CFM. You add a 150 HP shot of nitrous, or 90 CFM of nitrous. You're total CFM is now 690, within the capabilities of the exhaust housing, but you would be making 750 HP.

The extreme anaology is to replace all of the atmoshere with nitrous. 700 CFM is the capacity of the exhaust housing, so we'll use 700 CFM of nitrous and no atmosphere. You would now be making 1165 HP with the same amount of volume.

Nitrous is more dense with oxygen than atmosphere, so it takes less overall volume to make the power.

I don't know enough about combustion, nitrous, and gasoline to know what happens to the volume after the mixture burns, but on the intake side of things you could pass 690 CFM through the engine, make 750 HP, and still be theoretically within your 700 CFM limit on the exhaust housing.

Newer MAF cars, LS1's and stuff. They are limited by the stock MAF sensor being able to read XXX grams of air per second, which loosely translated to 500 HP. Back in the late 90's, a guy named Roman was making 510 HP naturally aspirated, pegging the stock MAF sensor. He added a 150 shot of nitrous, and everyone thought it would grenade instantly because the MAF sensor was pegged. Well, adding a 150 shot of nitrous doesn't mean the motor sucks in any more air. In fact, on his car, it woud peg the MAF sensor at a later RPM when on the bottle because the N20 was displacing some atmosphere.

Total volume of intake gasses did not change, air was just replaced with nitrous, but the car obviously made more power.

Like I said, I don't how the volume translates to the exhaust side of things, but you saying that you need exhale another 150 HP worth of air is not correct because you don't. You need to exhale another 150 HP worth of nitrous, and possibly less air if intake charge was displaced with nitrous oxide.
 
Most Turbo Buick guys will tell you nitrous is the devil....don't listen to them, listen to Don ;)


-Will
 
Well, I have not been on here for years but from the posts on here it seems like yesterday. The comments on nitrous never changes. :rolleyes:

I started running nitrous on Gns back around 1988. On a totally stock engine with 10" slicks, aftermarket rims, and stock chip. Started with 50hp jets which produced high 12.9's. Jumped up to 75 jets with same setup and ran 12.6's. Later went to 125hp jets and started having problems with fuel pressures (fuel pump not keeping up with fuel requirements). I went with upgraded fuel pump from ATR (back when ATR was the only place to get upgraded parts and newsletters). Had ATR burn a chip with less timing. Motor was holding up fine at that point but kept on having tranny problems.

This was with a single nozzle NOS in the uppipe system.

I have run nitrous on 5 different GNs. Most with a single nozzle setup and some with the 6 foggers setup in the dog house.

Tips I would give are:

1. upgrade the fuel system-make sure it can keep up with the fuel demand.
2. knock sensor- its the detenation that will kill the motor
3. colder plugs- plugs depend on how much nitrous hp
4. fuel pressure gauge- make sure you are not losing fuel pressure
5. adjust boost to right level- every 50hp of nitrous will increase boost about 2 psi
6. Timing- retard timing about 2 degrees for 50hp nitrous
7. check plugs- it will give you the best info on your tune
8. If your new to nitrous start small and increase to where you want to be. Jets are cheap.
9. If you run a NOS setup I and you notice a popping condition. You will probably think you are leaning out. But it is probably just the opposite. I had two cars that I put on a new NOS system with the recommend jets that started popping as if it was leaning out. Went to a double pump, increase gas jet, backed down the timing and nothing worked. Finally had a friend tell me that NOS sends them out with very conservative jets (to rich) so you do not break anything. Ended up leaning the gas jet and WOW, no popping and it cleaned right out. Just something to watch out for.


I have burned chips for 1 of the local guys here that was running a 140k mile stock long block GN that had been lightened as much as he could and keep it street legal. With my chip, he was able to run 10.8's in vegas a couple of years go. He was running the single fogger in the uppipe probable hundreds of times and uses it the full run, not just to spool it up.

My concerns about running a wets system before the turbo are these:
1.fuel puddling, I use to have a 1978 Z1R turbo (kawasaki 1000 motorcycle with a turbo on it, one of the first turbo applications on a stock bike), it ran a carb before the turbo, but had a back time fouling the plugs because the turbo actually puddled the fuel and cause the bike to run rich at times. About every 20 minutes you would have open it up for 3-4 gears and clean it out. Not to mention change the plugs about every 2-3 weeks.
2. cooling the turbo down, not sure if that would hurt peformance to some degree
3.would it degrade the oil seals in the turbo and maybe weaken the blades by heating and cooling? don't kow

DonW has given some good advice but I am not sure why the doom and gloom about the single nozzle setup. I had ran up to 125hp hundreds if not thousands of times on full runs. My experience was that the back 2 cylinders actually ran not as lean as the front 4. I think that the what gas that didn't vaporize actually went to the back cylinders where more airflow went. There was a couple of times I got greedy and ran the nitrous without the right setup (nitrous chip or boost set to high) and I blew head gaskets. Both times it blew on #4 cylinder.

When I went to more than 150hp, I went the 6pack fogger setup. That way I could adjust the fuel for each cylinder. But each cylinder is different as each engine was different. On Ed's car (10.8 on stock long block) we are able to run 21 degree timing on 20lbs of boost with stock turbo, stock intercooler, and 36lb injectors with no detentation. On my car I was only able to get away with 18 degrees timing.

Right now I am putting together a 63 impala with a GN motor and a 6 pack fogger setup. Should have it together by next spring.








Chuck
 
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