girdle questions

[meanmachine]

had some machine work done at a local machine shop. they did a great job on everything except the girdle install. i tried to explain to them the steps to complete the prosess . they acted like i was crazy and they knew how to install a girdle.now i got uneven pan rails and not enough shims to raise it up high enough. i guess ill have to tear it back down and take it to another place to get the rails cut. the question is can i still have the rails cut so i wont need any shims even after the caps have been cut?

 

[87LtdT]

Dam...that just drives me nuts. Guys who won't listen, think you are an idiot, and then fux up the job which leaves you with all the work and expense to get it done right...sorry for your pain.

I do not know how much cap or pan rail can be removed and still provide a reliable engine...a few more thousandths is probably OK regardless, but the reason for my post is to offer my opinion on how much gap you want between girdle and block.

I think the general opinion is the gap should be .003-.005" , but I think it should be more like .0005-.0015". The distance from the edge of the cap to the girdle stud holes is about 2" a short "arm" if you will...I see no reason to try to bend it by .004" or so. IMO this much deflection just puts unnecessary stresses on the edge of the caps, on the cap studs, on the girdle and I'm not sure the girdle actually is pulled down to the block surface by the studs/nuts....25 ftlbs generates about 4800 lbs of load and I'm not sure the capscrew loading will bend the girdle "arms" enough to snug it up against the block (I've never done the math to confirm).

Which brings me to my next watchout. Make absolutely sure that the studs you have for this application are NOT compression set screws. Just like those used to hold a lawn more pulley but much longer. Compression set screws are absolutely not the right fastener for this joint. Set screws (remember designed for compression NOT tension) are extremely hard (brittle) which means they do not stretch...they fast fracture when pulled on...which is exactly what we do when we tighten the nuts. Our application, having only 3/8" of bolt stretch length in the design, is a tough enough joint to find a stud that will work... don't aggravate it with set screws.

Bob

 

[ALETTOCO]

Dam...that just drives me nuts. Guys who won't listen, think you are an idiot, and then fux up the job which leaves you with all the work and expense to get it done right...sorry for your pain.

I do not know how much cap or pan rail can be removed and still provide a reliable engine...a few more thousandths is probably OK regardless, but the reason for my post is to offer my opinion on how much gap you want between girdle and block.

I think the general opinion is the gap should be .003-.005" , but I think it should be more like .0005-.0015". The distance from the edge of the cap to the girdle stud holes is about 2" a short "arm" if you will...I see no reason to try to bend it by .004" or so. IMO this much deflection just puts unnecessary stresses on the edge of the caps, on the cap studs, on the girdle and I'm not sure the girdle actually is pulled down to the block surface by the studs/nuts....25 ftlbs generates about 4800 lbs of load and I'm not sure the capscrew loading will bend the girdle "arms" enough to snug it up against the block (I've never done the math to confirm).

Which brings me to my next watchout. Make absolutely sure that the studs you have for this application are NOT compression set screws. Just like those used to hold a lawn more pulley but much longer. Compression set screws are absolutely not the right fastener for this joint. Set screws (remember designed for compression NOT tension) are extremely hard (brittle) which means they do not stretch...they fast fracture when pulled on...which is exactly what we do when we tighten the nuts. Our application, having only 3/8" of bolt stretch length in the design, is a tough enough joint to find a stud that will work... don't aggravate it with set screws.

Bob

I cut my caps a little more to get a true clean cut, it turn out that there wasn't enough shim so I call Jason for RJC and he said cut the rails or another set of shims. So I got the shims, took a little of each shim, marked them and it worked out fine.
The idea is to have a slight preloaded at .003-.005 doesn't have to be perfect has long as you have space between the rails ,the closer the better (.003 to .005 )that will help will any leaks that can be pain

 

[EVIL]

Your oil tube looks buried. What girdle is that?

D

 

[johnplogii]

You can file the pan rails yourself if its close, as long as you have some clearance all the way down the rail it will be fine. It does look like you will not be able to get an oil pickup on there though.

 

[pacecarta]

Your oil tube looks buried. What girdle is that?

D

yep... looks like one made specifically for a 109 planning on an external pump pickup
or someone forgot to notch it out
going to have to pull it off again anyway ,
do you have the oil extension block and long bolts?
if it was built for an external pump application it wouldnt need to be in the kit

 

[meanmachine]

bob, thank for the info on the clearances and the studs. i made a mistake when i ordered the pan studs from arp . i ordered stainless studs and i didnt clarify the shoulder length,so there useless for the girdle. what studs would you recommend. also this is for an external pickup and the girdle is aluminum.

 

[87LtdT]

Sent a lengthy reply to you at: nad42701@yahoo.com

Let me know if you have more questions...best to call me after 6pm.

Bob

 

[slamming 6]

MeanMachine who made the girdle who sell's it,TIA,AL.

 

[bad V6]

Danny, glad to see that you are back to working on the Buick. Give me a call if I can be of any help.

 

[meanmachine]

thank for the offer Pat(i knew u would be there for me). i just dropped my block to get the pan rails cut . im shooting for 1-3 thousands of clearance between the girdle and the rails.it should take a few days to complete. ill take another pic as soon as get it. slamming 6 i bought this girdle from kip aspund. kip has or can get anything you need when it comes to the turbo buick.