Fuel system build

Squid4life

Well-Known Member
Been out of Buicks for about 5 years so it kind of feels like I am having to relearn a lot as things have changed. I finally picked up a GN to build, and will be putting my Stage 2 engine in it later on. For now I will be running a 109 setup on alky and high boost, and have 120 or 160 pb/hr injectors on the shelf, but I am building the fuel system now to support the Stage 2 later, which should be 900-1100 capable with the right turbo. Plans later to also move to Holley EFI. I know it is overkill most likely, but I would like to get some more experience with Holley EFI tuning as part of my business supports that.

I know there are a few options for dual in-tanks from Racetronix, who has always been awesome. I am trying to decide between the Racetronix (Racetronix GEN2 "Double Pumper" Turbo Buick E100 Dual In-Tank Pump System 725LPH EQ) with AN -8 feed & return, or just go with RobbMc pick up and go external pump/ filters. I can get pretty good deals on Aeromotive, MagnaFuel, Holley, etc. I really didn't want to sump the tank mainly due to trying to keep it semi "low key" sleeper-ish.

Any thoughts?

Also need to look into converter/turbo combos, since some of the data and what's available has changed quite a bit...
 

dank GN

BlackArts Automotive (661)993-8277
I’m actually building a fuel system right now for a customer . Anyway he bought himself a really nice fuel tank from Ricks . He ordered the dual walbro 450 intank that’s pretty bad ass. I am also running a new Hellcat pump and a walbro 450 in a stock tank with -8 and -6 Teflon lines. It is supplying my 281cid stage motor with enough fuel for some serious power on e85 . Anyway here are acouple pictures of the new ricks tank I’m installing currently
 

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Squid4life

Well-Known Member
I was checking that tank and pump setup out on your IG. Pretty legit, that tank is art.

Decisions, decisions... dual in-tank or single large external... in my head a single sounds simpler.
 

Squid4life

Well-Known Member
I guess another factor I can weigh into this equation is my business. I run my own business selling offroad and performance parts. I don't carry Racetronix, but I do carry Holley, Aeromotive, Magnafuel, etc, as well as fittings, filters and lines. Maybe being able to showcase what I can offer in parts/builds would help sway the scales towards an external setup.
 

murphster

Well-Known Member
My 2 cents....

I went from two in tank pumps to one large external after one of them failed to turn and then I figured out it was hard to test it as I could run low 10s on one pump and only needed the second pump when going faster. For piece of mind and simplicity I went to a large external pump and had no issues.

I had an Aeromotive Eliminator but it was loud. You could use a Weldon 1100 as its good easy into the 9 sec power range with alky. Its very quiet also. You could then upgrade to a bigger pump later. I would want to look at flow charts before deciding anything if you just want one pump for growth. I also have ran into alternator issues here and there so a pump flow output at 12V would be nice to see or just have an overhead of 20% if all you have is a 14V pump output.

For example... lets say you are running a bigger turbo for 80lbs/min and 800fwhp (this may put down 700rwhp or more). Using a conversion of 0.65 BSFC that gives 520lb/hr of fuel or 87gph (6lb/gal). And lets give 20% overhead for our pump so that's 620lb/hr or 104gph at 12V, 744lb/hr or 125gph at 14V .

Now look up the flow of something like the Aeromotive A1000... at say 75psi ( 40 something psi base + 30psi boost) its maybe only 550 lb/hr. Not enough (technically it can be done but leaves no overhead for the pump if it degrades). You'd want the Eliminator that flows 700lb/hr at 75psi. https://aeromotiveinc.com/product/a1000-fuel-pump/ https://aeromotiveinc.com/product/eliminator-fuel-pump/

How about the Weldon 100A? It only has a 14V chart. 115gph at 75psi is on the short side. But you are on alky you won't need near as much fuel on the pump and it would be ok. On racegas it may be tight. Prob need something more like a 2025. https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/79966d_08073e8e52f947e79113c4959511ca87.pdf https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/79966d_daf2b3e30f1f4505ac7944fd6b93e860.pdf

I've read the bigger Weldon pumps are louder. I know the Weldon 1100 is quiet and the Aeromotives are loud. The bigger Holley's are quiet but are also dual pump setups. But this is the information I would use to be safe and choose accordingly. And better is to choose a turbo that won't outflow your fuel pump setup and also choose injectors that won't outflow it also and you then have a matched system. Choose turbo/power level... get pump to support it.... get injectors that will outflow it. Simple lol.
 

Squid4life

Well-Known Member
I want to base the pump setup on making that HP number with just the pump. Not sure I’ll be running alky on the S2 engine (probably) but don’t want to “have to” use alky to supplement a borderline fuel system. I had a Weldon on one of my old cars and yeah it was noisy. But, I’ll do my best to use non-rigid mounting and see if I can isolate some of that noise if I go that route.

Your issue of a pump going bad on a twin setup is one of my fears. Too many moving parts, buried in the tank, etc.

With regards to alternator, I was lookinh at the 200 amp alts, and Odyssey battery. Trying to do this the right way, the safe and solid way. Thank you very much for the replies this far.
 

murphster

Well-Known Member
Should say injectors that won’t outflow the pump at the end of my post. But injectors that will outflow the turbo/power level.

Turbo/power level > injectors that will outflow that turbo/power at 80% duty cycle > fuel pump that will outflow injectors at 100% duty cycle

That way you won’t run out of fuel. Seen enough where these rules weren’t followed... some on high hp combos. Everyone knows when you’re out of injector as its easy to see on a log. But out of fuel pump is trickier to see. Best is just to spec it correctly.
 
My E85 fuel system plan is two Walbro 450 in the tank.
One on a separate "hanger" with a separate line out. the other on the OE hanger and a modified line out.
 

pitch black

Active Member
InnovativeParts.Net make a complete fuel system with wiring kit and fuel line.
 

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ttypewhite

Well-Known Member
Depends on what your goal is with the car. If it's a race car, then your possibilities are endless from extrenals to intanks. If it's a street car my choice is obvious, it would be Racetronix as that is what I am running for the last 5 to 6 years problem free. My car is exactly what your post is about. My car makes over 1000hp and has run 154mph in a heavy car with my old setup which made less power. I drive it everywhere on the street, and it has the same mannerism of a stock Buick. No whinny pumps, no vibrations, no fuel controllers, no headaches. My injector duty cycle on the street with Razors kit is 59% at 24psi, and 68% at 28psi on straight C16 no alky. These are real numbers, not a opinion.

C16 no alky
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pump gas and alky

IMG_20190731_2230573.jpg
 
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