front wheel drive block 87 3.8

[frank_ster]

Hydraulic roller tappet​

Basic Operating RPM Range:​

​

1,200-5,800​

Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift:​

​

212​

Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift:​

​

212​

Duration at 050 inch Lift:​

​

212 int./212 exh.​

Advertised Intake Duration:​

​

264​

Advertised Exhaust Duration:​

​

264​

Advertised Duration:​

​

264 int./264 exh.​

Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:​

​

0.504 in.​

Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:​

​

0.504 in.​

Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:​

​

0.504 int./0.504 exh.​

Lobe Separation (degrees):​

​

110​

Computer-Controlled Compatible:​

​

No​

Grind Number:​

​

264HR​

 

[frank_ster]

You'd be surprised that in a turbocharged application with backpressure a lot of the common thought process in cams and valvetrain doesn't apply. We've gone 9's in full weight cars with .320" lobe lift. If the factory retarded the cam that much it was most likely due to a compromise of emissions and achieving good cylinder pressure at the most usable rpm. The supercharged 3800 series II is a pooch that has snappy throttle response and is very economical. If looking for power a different cam grind would likely give a huge advantage. Cleaning up the heads and going with more compressor on top of that is probably worth 200hp. I'd degree that cam in. What are the lobe #'s? My 800hp engine has lobe lift in the mid .350's. That's it.

^ now that is info i was looking for !

i'll order the head gaskets .027" thick tonight,

could it be the front wheel drive heads are just really shitty ? the intake runners look identical to a grand national. the exhaust is different since these heads are narrower to accommodate being fwd. i made custom headers that are 1.625" primary and 2" secondary shooting up to the turbo where there is a 2.5" dia collector into the holset.

 

[bison]

Your cam is a 3312/3312 and the lobes need to be spread out more to work better with backpressure. 110 LS will drop power right of peak power quickly with back pressure. If you measure the specs in your engine expect the duration at .006" to increase a few degrees, duration at .050 to be close to the catalog, and expect the duration at .200" to drop about 2*. Retarding it will really put the valve timing out of position. Several have run 9's with that cam. I've gone 10.13 myself with it. I had it installed at 110icl and it had 112LS. I ran a GTQ turbine so back pressure would be comparatively quite a bit less than a smaller turbine. It made 625whp on a stock shortblock @ 25psi and was likely in the 680whp range when it went 10.13. I shifted at 5700. I ran comp 941's with about 150 on the seat and 1.65 rocker ratio. I would have ran 1.55 ratio on the ex but I didn't have an extra set at that time. Your heads are about the same. A good valve job on either will increase the flow over the crappy valve job. Your tubing sizes aren't a problem.

 

[frank_ster]

^ what you are saying is a little confusing .. so the cam is alright but could be better ?
on the comp cams site the grind says that there is actually zero valve overlap . the exhaust closes at the moment the intake opens. that was something i was looking for when choosing this cam. it is my understanding a no overlap cam is good for high boost. since the back pressure doesn't affect the intake charge.

the heads had a 3 angle valve job done and i did some obvious porting, but this was 60 000 km ago and 3 years.! its daily driven and driven today it was -18 C (0 deg f) this morning.
maybe the heads should be reworked ,, i have another set of heads sitting in my shed for a rainy day.

 

[bison]

^ what you are saying is a little confusing .. so the cam is alright but could be better ?
on the comp cams site the grind says that there is actually zero valve overlap . the exhaust closes at the moment the intake opens. that was something i was looking for when choosing this cam. it is my understanding a no overlap cam is good for high boost. since the back pressure doesn't affect the intake charge.

the heads had a 3 angle valve job done and i did some obvious porting, but this was 60 000 km ago and 3 years.! its daily driven and driven today it was -18 C (0 deg f) this morning.
maybe the heads should be reworked ,, i have another set of heads sitting in my shed for a rainy day.

There's probably zero overlap @.050 open events but there's still overlap. There has to be or the valves would have to be closed. No overlap would mean no power either. I'm just saying if I were going to spec that cam and the backpressure was going to be high I'd spread the lobes a little more. Not because it would make more power under all conditions but it would be better if the backpressure was high. Especially right of peak.

 

[frank_ster]

10-4
so i'll get the quench down
degree in that cam
do you guys have a timing set that you would highly recommend?

 

[ttaowner]

How about some pics of this Subaru powered by a Buick v6 PLEASE !!!!

 

[trixdout]

How about some pics of this Subaru powered by a Buick v6 PLEASE !!!!

go to this thread 9http://turbobuick.com/forums/threads/2005-subaru-legacy-3-8-turbo-the-buckaru.391159/#post-3165043). this is where he posted the videos and such and showed how he has the megasquirt efi working.

 

[Pittsburghkid]

and why arn't more people running the 87 front wheel drive blocks that have the factory roller like mine?

Ask an ye shall receive.

http://turbobuick.com/forums/threads/series-ii-l67-grand-national.257876/

 

[frank_ster]

Ask an ye shall receive.

http://turbobuick.com/forums/threads/series-ii-l67-grand-national.257876/

Well thats not quite a 1987 3.8 fwd block
Things I don't like about the series 2 is the shorter connecting rods and the balance shaft
I do like the heads and as far as I know the series 2 head can be bolted to a 87 block bust a custom intake manifold is needed to 1" shorter deck height and different cylinder bank offset!

FYI for you grand national guys you could use the 1987 front wheel drive blocks with all your existing cam and valve train heads and intake
Just need to use a f body trans
The f body trans can have the guts exchanged with a regular 4l60e

 

[bison]

Well thats not quite a 1987 3.8 fwd block
Things I don't like about the series 2 is the shorter connecting rods and the balance shaft
I do like the heads and as far as I know the series 2 head can be bolted to a 87 block bust a custom intake manifold is needed to 1" shorter deck height and different cylinder bank offset!

FYI for you grand national guys you could use the 1987 front wheel drive blocks with all your existing cam and valve train heads and intake
Just need to use a f body trans
The f body trans can have the guts exchanged with a regular 4l60e

Why would we need an f-body trans? 99% of 200-4r trans have both rear drive patterns on them. The 200 4-r is better suited to these engines than a 4l60

 

[GBGN1]

He's prob referring to the 60* bell housing on the front wheel drive block.

 

[frank_ster]

^ yes the " metric" bell housing , i have herd mixed things about the 200 r 4 i guess you guys got it figured out ? and better gear ratios ? i know the 700r 4 has a realy low first.

 

[bison]

^ yes the " metric" bell housing , i have herd mixed things about the 200 r 4 i guess you guys got it figured out ? and better gear ratios ? i know the 700r 4 has a realy low first.

That makes sense. The 200-4r if built properly is a much better choice for a high cylinder pressure small displacement turbo engine

 

[frank_ster]

any of you tear the center out of thier flex plates ? i did when i had it in my sunbird about 5 years ago. I changed it with another stock one and have been fine since, i think it was due to the revlimiter set a little to harsh.

 

[GBGN1]

You need to hang out at 3800 pro. com and some other 3800 sights lots of info out there.

 

[frank_ster]

what you guys don't like me around ? well my flex plate is not the same as thiers .. , my engine is much closer to yours than thiers.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

its just slightly different technology. I see where you coming from... and in reality... your engine is actually slightly better with its gerorator oil pump and timing cover system. its hinderence, is that metric bellhousing.

I run a 700R4 behind my turbo buick.

I think first can be a little too deep for a light vehicle... it wont load the turbo very well but the 1st to 2nd shift change really gets that spool coming. Good trans, but it is limited in serious race parts and the stupid SBC only pattern is lame.

 

[frank_ster]

^ well you could also just install a ultra bell to the 700r4, for 200$ then its dual bolt pattern.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

^ well you could also just install a ultra bell to the 700r4, for 200$ then its dual bolt pattern.

well its more lik 350 for the bell....... add that to the cost and the 200R4 starts looking alot better.

but for the metric pattern cars, the 700 is better than nuthing!