Extender tip in stumble

GeneralB44

www.pinkhumpy.com
Joined
May 25, 2001
I recently got an extender for my combo, and it pulls great from a roll ... but from a stop, I have bad tip in stumble (almost stalls). Didn't have this problem with the thrasher or lubrant chips. Any ideas?

- cam not 180 out
- fp 45
- 3" lt1 maf
- maf translator - setting 3 for 3" lt1 maf
- blm 126-128
- AF 2 or 3 (is that too low? i think the lubrant chip had it higher?)
- 37lb delphi's

I tried the 0 setting on the translator for the 3 1/2" ls1 maf, but blm went down to 90. Should I use that setting and lower the FP to try to compensate? Thanks!
 
You neglected a couple of important bits of info.

What is your idle TPS?
What is your idle IAC (in park)?

What are the 4 DIP switches set to in the Translator.
 
Finally. someone with the same problem

I have the exact same problem, I have been through absolutely everything. My car works perfectly with every other chip. Bob Bailey has been pretty helpful, but so far no dice.

-Cam sensor in a bunch of positions including 180 out, no change
-Tried FP from 35-55 psi, no change
- swapped 3" lt1 maf off my Montanna, no change
- messed with maf translator - settings for 3 and 3.5, no change.
- altered blm parameter up and down, no change
- using 30 lb Accel injectors, brand new
- reset IAC and TPS many times trying lots of IAC and very low IAC in conjunction with high and low TPS settings. Bob suggested pushing TPS all the way back to limit its upper voltage value. Eventually bought brand new TPS from GM, no change

Your AF is shown as half because the chip uses it to give you the maximum of 512. Your 2-3 is really 4-6m my car is 5 with a conventional chip, key on not running.

In all cases if I feather the throttle from a stop, the car feels fine. Is that true for you?

Try TurboDave's settings, but I am guessing the problem won't go away.

I was convinced the problem was a lean tip-in, so Bob redid the chip with more enrichment. The problem got much worse, the car used to just bog and go, now it can outright die from a dead stop. Like you my car works beautifully otherwise.

I did notice that immediately after coming to a stop the IAC sits at a slightly higher value for about 2 seconds before dropping the idle down to its final value. During this slightly higher idle, the tip-in problem is almost gone. Try this on your car. On my car during cold warm-up before closed loop, the tip-in is much much better. The car is quite rich but it is odd.

What I don't get is the fact that the car is totally fine with every other chip I have, an old SuperChip, and old JC chip and a Thrasher.

I hope between our two cars Bob can figure something out. My car can't really be driven safely like this. I have had to yank it out. I love all the features, I hope there is a solution.
 
My car did this too on my most recent chip and injectors. I originally had an extender and translator w/my stock injectors and everything was fine. Then I switched to blue tops and the new chip had the same horrible tip in problems off idle, even died a coule times. I tried richer and leaner at idle settings inside the translator to no avail and FP up and down only to set codes. The problem has seemed to go away for a while, but if we can figure out a true solution I would be much happier.

ADAM
 
Do you have DirectScan? I would think that this would be a perfect time for a little DS testing. Put chip A in, go for a drive, log it when you start off from a stop sign. Then do the same thing with the Extender chip. You ought to be able to see some difference between the two logs under the same conditions. I'd look and see if the injector pw was different between the two, or timing, or IAC. Something. Once you identify the difference, then Bob can probably fix it.

John
 
Good point JDEstill. I am saving up for Direct Scan rightnow. Does anyone else have it already to try?
 
I only have turbo link and I don't know if the refresh rate is fast enough to pick up the stumble.

ADAM
 
When you get DS, lets really attack this. Let me know and I'll dig out some additional parameters to log so we can really see what's on the ECM's mind...

Sorry I didn't post before, it's been crazy around here.

Bob
 
My driving season will be over any day now. First real snow and I am off the road. I hope someone else has DirectScan to try. I also have Turbo-Link but it doesn't have pulse widths and is way too slow for this. Otherwise I would be happy to pick this up in the spring, sigh.
 
Old thread here... but just curious if anyone found the solution for this tip in problem? I haven't driven my car much in the last year or so, so no tuning for me yet...
 
Yes it did get fixed. Not all injectors are alike. My 30# Accel (Bosch) injectors spray a lot more fuel at small pulse widths than other brands. The chip was reprogrammed to scale the tip-in to 70% of normal. Car then drove perfectly with respect to tip-in. Still had an idle BLM cell that was quite far off though but tip-in was fixed.
 
Originally posted by BJM
Yes it did get fixed. Not all injectors are alike. My 30# Accel (Bosch) injectors spray a lot more fuel at small pulse widths than other brands. The chip was reprogrammed to scale the tip-in to 70% of normal. Car then drove perfectly with respect to tip-in. Still had an idle BLM cell that was quite far off though but tip-in was fixed.

Interesting! How did you know? Did you have some kind of chart showing the different amount of flow by pulse width? I have what i think are 37lb delphi's (came with a lubrant chip i got a long time ago)...
 
I had no idea at first. As you can see above I went on a wild goose chase. One thing you can do is cranking the fuel pressure up and down a lot. The car will simply relearn the cells but the tip-in is time based only, it cannot learn. Therefore lowering fuel pressure reduces the tip-in. If you drop the fuel pressure by ~20 psi (only as a tip-in test) you can cut the tip-in by maybe as much as 15%. As you can see my car needed much more of a trim. The other clue is the fact that the lower cells were so low compared to the others. The injector constant can only move the cells up or down as a group. You have to actually reshape the MAF tables themselves to alter one region differently from another. Ultimately I changed the MAF tables to fix the problems, now everything is nearly perfect.
 
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