Engine rebuild...trying to estimate costs

[Wahoo]

So my 85 Buick t-type (hot air), im debating rebuilding it myself, or at least having the long block put together.

Goals: faster, not a 9 second car, probably not even a 10 second car.

The trans will be built, rearend stock currently, but will address it once i research that.

Reason why im rebuilding it, is because of a ticking noise when its warmed up and driven for a couple miles, its coming from rear of oil pan area.



Id like to do a forged crank, and billet mains for 1,2,3 as ive read rear main isnt necessary.

What im wondering is, what i can get away with reusing, and i know its a stupid question, how much power can the stock pistons and rods handle? Probably use stock cam, dont know if i could afford going roller at this time. Converter might stay stock too

I guess also the block, curious how much it can take, im pretty sure its a 109 block, i know its not supposed to be since its an 85.

Currently car is running on e85, 80# injectors, maf translator, newer maf, dw300 pump, TA33 turbo.

 

[Nick Micale]

A short block assembled with 2 steel caps and a forged rotating assembly including pistons will cost about 5K.

 

[Toby_Goodmk]

2100 for a 4340 forged stroker rotating assy last year. Stock 109 bored 20 over, align honed, steel caps (200$), with assembly, heads gone through and all assembled was $1500. So i have 3800 in my build assembled, total.

 

[Wahoo]

2100 for a 4340 forged stroker rotating assy last year. Stock 109 bored 20 over, align honed, steel caps (200$), with assembly, heads gone through and all assembled was $1500. So i have 3800 in my build assembled, total.

Thx for the info.

Thats why im trying to see if i can re use the pistons or rods, dont know if theyre strong or a weak link

 

[Toby_Goodmk]

I wouldn't spare anything on a build in my opinion. Forged crank is a must as well. I had a turbo go out and send shit through my engine. Didn't even phase the journals. Was able to re bearing the crank. Spend the money now or later. 2100 for pistons rods crank rings and bearings is a good deal. Look up Dave H.

 

[Wahoo]

I wouldn't spare anything on a build in my opinion. Forged crank is a must as well. I had a turbo go out and send shit through my engine. Didn't even phase the journals. Was able to re bearing the crank. Spend the money now or later. 2100 for pistons rods crank rings and bearings is a good deal. Look up Dave H.

I know the crank flexes, but wasnt sure if the rods and pistons might be able to take some abuse.

Yeah i know Dave Husek, im probably going to sebd my tranny to him. Might be sending more.

I hope the block is good

 

[Mr.Spool]

What im wondering is, what i can get away with reusing, and i know its a stupid question, how much power can the stock pistons and rods handle? Probably use stock cam, dont know if i could afford going roller at this time.

inmo find out what the noise is so you don't have to guess,then based on the builders suggestion ready the wallet as a good builder will tell you what parts they are comfortable with.

 

[rag231]

5% off sale going on now. http://www.buickgn.com/strokerkit.htm

 

[rag231]

It's a great start! I agree with Toby_Goodmk , I wouldn't leave anything on the table as far as the shortblock. It may be the last one you ever build. Then you can play with heads and turbo stuff later. Remember your machinist/assembler will make or break your project, cost and longevity wise. There are some flat tappets still hauling the mail out there, but on the next tear down I will spring for a roller, gotta a little extra play on #3 cam lobe.

 

[Boost231]

Imop for your goals just build a stock crank, stock rod, 2 center billet mains with aftermarket pistons ported irons and a small cam and with the rest of the performance parts to bolt on it, it will exceed your goals.

 

[Wahoo]

Imop for your goals just build a stock crank, stock rod, 2 center billet mains with aftermarket pistons ported irons and a small cam and with the rest of the performance parts to bolt on it, it will exceed your goals.

So crank flex is more because of crappy main caps?


I was really planning to put the engine together myself, but since the block will probably need machine work and or to be checked, wasnt sure if maybei should just have the machinest build it.

 

[Nick Micale]

So crank flex is more because of crappy main caps?

I was really planning to put the engine together myself, but since the block will probably need machine work and or to be checked, wasnt sure if maybe i should just have the machinest build it.

The crank will flex more is because the "crappy" stock crank is a casting, not a much stronger and higher strength steel forging, and you plan to put more RPM and HP to it.

The steel caps are to re-inforce the weakest area in the production production block which is the web between the cam bore and the crank bore.

As far as assembling a short block, especially with steel caps, that should be left to an experienced professional.

 

[nolanator]

2100 for a 4340 forged stroker rotating assy last year. Stock 109 bored 20 over, align honed, steel caps (200$), with assembly, heads gone through and all assembled was $1500. So i have 3800 in my build assembled, total.

Is that just the rotating assembly for $2100? I am seeing at least two options well below $1800

 

[blklt1z28]

The crank will flex more is because the "crappy" stock crank is a casting, not a much stronger and higher strength steel forging, and you plan to put more RPM and HP to it.

The steel caps are to re-inforce the weakest area in the production production block which is the web between the cam bore and the crank bore.

As far as assembling a short block, especially with steel caps, that should be left to an experienced professional.

Stock cranks and rods have been in the 9's....

Stock heads and cams have been in the 10's....

Why is everyone suggesting all these high dollar parts when the OP said he wasn't even sure he wanted 10 sec slips?

IMHO, use the stock crank, rods, even the rod bolts! with some good wiseco or JE pistons and use the money you saved towards a good reputable builder and supporting mods.

If the crank and rods are different on a hot air car vs an 86-87 car then I'm an idiot and disregard my post, or find some nice 86-87 parts to use. They can be had for cheap on here.

 

[bison]

Stock cranks and rods have been in the 9's....

Stock heads and cams have been in the 10's....

Why is everyone suggesting all these high dollar parts when the OP said he wasn't even sure he wanted 10 sec slips?

IMHO, use the stock crank, rods, even the rod bolts! with some good wiseco or JE pistons and use the money you saved towards a good reputable builder and supporting mods.

If the crank and rods are different on a hot air car vs an 86-87 car then I'm an idiot and disregard my post, or find some nice 86-87 parts to use. They can be had for cheap on here.

For a high to mid 10 sec build in a 3600lb car a stock crank and rods are fine. You start with a short block that hasn't had the caps walking all over and have a competent machinist machine it then a competent assembler assemble it. The quality of aftermarket Chinese forged cranks is so variable that the initial cost of the crank shouldn't be a consideration. It's going to be approximately $1000 by the time it's ready to go in the block. Last one I used required some heavy metal in the front counterweight and the rod journals were hour glass shaped. I will say the stroke was almost spot on with the initial gauging. Only the #2 rod was off at 3.402". All others were 3.400". When the rod journals were cut .010" the stroke on #2 was corrected. Also anything can break at anytime in a high Perfomance engine. Two things that make almost all the difference is the assemblers attention to detail and the tuners knowledge of the build. The assembler should know every detail of every part of the assembly. All clearances, materials used, clearance volumes, etc. I've seen so many failures from poor assembly it's actually becoming a safety issue. I fixed 2 engines in the last year that had excessive suction to pan clearance. One had over an inch and the pan wasn't baffled! Steel crank, rods, and forged Pistons don't mean much if they are haphazardly thrown in. 4 in the last year that had improperly machined flex plate pilots (China cranks) and one with excessive knurling that ripped the rear seal. All should have been caught by the assembler but weren't. Expect to pay $5-6k for a properly assembled specified girdled short block with Chinese crank and rods. Billet crank and rods $$$$$. With the intended power density scrimping on anything will get you burned.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Wahoo]

Dont get me wrong, i would like to go as fast as possible, but im not rich so have to be budget minded and get away with what i can.

I have friends that build engines. One builds LS engines, another built all types of engines. The machinst i planned to go to has built a GNs motor before but im sure not many compared to chevy motors.

I have knowledgeable people who can probably help me put the engine together, it would be nice to do it myself with help, but we will see.

Car is a hot air, and i dont have anything against it being a hot air, but i do have a welder, and sometimes think about moving things around to run an intercooler since im not trying to build a record setting hot air, just trying to go fast.

 

[ITSAV6]

Find a good machinist, center billet caps, ARP main studs and rod bolts, resize the rod ends, forged pistons, balance the rotating assembly. Make sure he uses the tight Buick clearances on rod/mains. I assembled my own engine and caught a couple things the machinist missed. Do you have friends who have micrometers etc that would help you? It is a great learning experience and you can say"I built that!" A roller cam is a great addition also.

 

[Wahoo]

Find a good machinist, center billet caps, ARP main studs and rod bolts, resize the rod ends, forged pistons, balance the rotating assembly. Make sure he uses the tight Buick clearances on rod/mains. I assembled my own engine and caught a couple things the machinist missed. Do you have friends who have micrometers etc that would help you? It is a great learning experience and you can say"I built that!" A roller cam is a great addition also.

So you think forged crank a no, and keep stock rods as well?

Yeah one of my best friends has built many motors but he moved to texas, but tools are in his dads garage.

Then another friend, he actually builds LS engines, and he is extremely meticulous, hes built 1,000hp ls1s with coated bearings so im sure he know a good amount.


I wpuld definitely like to build the motor myslf with one of my friends help.

 

[ITSAV6]

If you aren't building a 10sec motor I say no to forged crank. The billet caps require a line bore and it has to be done right. Main studs with stock caps will work fine way into the 11's. Determine a goal, whats needed for that goal and hope it fits into your budget. I know everyone doesn't have 6k to get a shortblock built. I spent $800+/- for machine work. Included align bore mains for the billet center caps, resize rods, turned crank 10/10, install pistons on rods, balanced rotating assembly, installed main studs and crank so he could check endplay(forgot evidently,had to pull it so he could install new thrust bearing due to 14/1000 endplay due to cleaning up the thrust surface on crank).
I did check rod bearing clearances and they were dead on. I did go with a roller cam but a flat tappet works too. I ended up with a little over 2k in the shortblock including cam/lifters. I got the TRW forged pistons super cheap or I woulda had $2,400+-.

 

[Wahoo]

If you aren't building a 10sec motor I say no to forged crank. The billet caps require a line bore and it has to be done right. Main studs with stock caps will work fine way into the 11's. Determine a goal, whats needed for that goal and hope it fits into your budget. I know everyone doesn't have 6k to get a shortblock built. I spent $800+/- for machine work. Included align bore mains for the billet center caps, resize rods, turned crank 10/10, install pistons on rods, balanced rotating assembly, installed main studs and crank so he could check endplay(forgot evidently,had to pull it so he could install new thrust bearing due to 14/1000 endplay due to cleaning up the thrust surface on crank).
I did check rod bearing clearances and they were dead on. I did go with a roller cam but a flat tappet works too. I ended up with a little over 2k in the shortblock including cam/lifters. I got the TRW forged pistons super cheap or I woulda had $2,400+-.

Well i guess once February or march hits, ill know how much money i have to build the engine. Id rather spend 1k on more forged goodies than a roller cam or cam at all since ive read stock cams have made it to the 10s/9s. Ported heads abd intake would be better than a cam you think?