Engine Oil Cooler - to keep, or not too?

[JToups386]

I am curious to anyone's results/findings from removing the stock engine oil cooler, and running just with the filter in its place. I only run Mobil 1 10W30, so I'm already going to have significantly lower oil temps than conventional oils. However, I'm still seeking input from anyone who may have done this successfully, or unsuccessfully...? Can we run without them, and not risk hurting the turbo oiling components, etc.?

I have installed a new high vol, high flow TRW oil pump, and it appears that the oil cooler setup and the tank on the radiator are extremely constrictive, and may be causing a "bottleneck" in the flow capabilities of the new pump setup.

??? Anyone,,, Anyone???

 

[Turbosix6]

I would leave all alone or better yet you can splurge for a be-cool rad with the built in cooler.

 

[Lee Thompson]

oil cooler

I have an 85 which didn/t have a cooler from the factory. After installing a large B&M supercooler, (I have an oil temp. sensor) my oil ran much cooler which in turn makes for higher oil pressure.

 

[bsdlinux]

Originally posted by JToups386
Can we run without them, and not risk hurting the turbo oiling components, etc.?

The factory did alot of things right. The oil cooler would be one of them. It works, leave it alone.
People quit using them because metal that was found in the engine after a cam went down or whatever leaving most to believe the metal would be in the cooler. Which it probably is at that point. If you don't have these issues leave the cooler alone. If you do have these issues, do what Turbosix6 said with the be-cool rad upgrade.

I remember a few years ago when everyone was taking the EGRs of their V8 cars until they found out that for the most part the engines ran better with them. Nothing wrong with stock parts, especially on our cars.

 

[GNVAIR]

Re: Re: Engine Oil Cooler - to keep, or not too?

Originally posted by bsdlinux
The factory did alot of things right. The oil cooler would be one of them. It works, leave it alone.
People quit using them because metal that was found in the engine after a cam went down or whatever leaving most to believe the metal would be in the cooler. Which it probably is at that point. If you don't have these issues leave the cooler alone. If you do have these issues, do what Turbosix6 said with the be-cool rad upgrade.

I remember a few years ago when everyone was taking the EGRs of their V8 cars until they found out that for the most part the engines ran better with them. Nothing wrong with stock parts, especially on our cars.

Yeah the main down side to the factory cooler is when a hose blows off. We have had 3 cars do that. Trust me, it gets expensive!

 

[Brian Mc]

I'd install a dual circuit cooler and install it after the trans and engine radiator mounted coolers. The one with the small cooling fan is cool, mounted under the battery in the fenderwell.

 

[Ormand]

Mobil 1?

Most of us run a synthetic oil, because it won't coke up the turbo bearing. BUT.. I don't believe it has any significant effect on oil temperature. Go with the cooler. And be aware that some people have had cam bearing failures, which MAY have been caused by the higher loads from their high-volume oil pumps. Not sure about this, myself, but others have more experience.

 

[lrover2]

I run a longer filter with no cooler lines. Works fine for me. My car came that way but I have since replaced the engine (broken cam) and the radiator so I was thinking about putting the lines back on just to see if it helps in any way.

 

[Mark E.]

I removed my oil cooler for the debris reason stated earlier. I lost a bearing and did not think it could be flushed completely. I have a oil temp sender in the pan, and was suprised to see only a couple of degrees difference in oil temp. I have not done anything about it because the temp rarely reaches 200 degrees in the summer when driven hard. Also, going to synthetic made no noticable difference. I may put an air to oil cooler on the car in the future.

 

[BoostedBug]

Re: Mobil 1?

Originally posted by Ormand
Most of us run a synthetic oil, because it won't coke up the turbo bearing. BUT.. I don't believe it has any significant effect on oil temperature.

LOL... This is an Intresting statement. Synthetic oil does cool the engine period. Have you ever noticed that the Corvettes from at least 94 up al have the mobile 1 only emblem on the car and the oil change runs $60 at the dealer? I bought a new Vette in 94 and know for a fact that these cars required the synthetic oil due to the lay down design of the radiator and the lack of air being pushed through them.

 

[Brian Mc]

Yep and they also had a factory oil temp gauge.

 

[.38 special]

I'm surprised that nobody mentioned this. When I removed the lines and put external fluid coolers, my engine temp dropped dramatically. I would definatley go with an external. I like the idea of the one with the fan under the battery.

 

[JToups386]

Interesting feedback from you all. Thanks to all for responding.
A couple of points:
Yes, synthetic oil, by its nature, will run cooler. Conventional grade oil has a tendency to "cook" in extreme conditions, as well as not providing as good of a lubrication factor as synthetics. Therefore, by default, more friction = higher temps.

My original thread was merely to get input from any of you who may have successfully eliminated the cooler completely, with no side effects. (I'm still looking for that input)
I'm not looking to replace it with a better one. I've already got an upgraded big-tube 3 core radiator (with stock side tanks), and have no need to spend $600 on another one. I've got a good external tranny cooler as well. I'm fully aware of "bearing failure", as that's the reason I just rebuilt my motor. I've got a high-vol, high-pressure pump now, which I will probably downgrade one spring-level, to hopefully not place as much pressure on the cooler line end fittings, which is what stemmed this whole discussion per a small leak.
__________________________________
For those of you who want to read further about synthetic oils, here's some general info:

Motor oil serves many purposes. Its primary function is to lubricate and protect, but it also is designed to keep your engine cool and running clean.

Under ideal driving conditions (consistent speed highway driving), conventional motor oils recommended by the vehicle manufacturer work just fine. But for many people, ideal driving conditions are few and far between. In cases of stop and go traffic, short trips, very cold temperatures, very hot temperatures (caused by weather, traffic jams or turbo engines) or towing and hauling, drivers can benefit from the extra protection of synthetics.
Conventional motor oils are made from crude oil that is drilled from the ground and processed in a refinery. Synthetic motor oils are created from special "synthesized" materials and deliver more performance benefits, such as:
Superior protection from engine wear Lower volatility for decreased oil consumption ("volatility" is the tendency of an oil to break down at extreme temperatures) Better gas mileage Easier start-ups at very cold temperatures (because they flow easier) Greater viscosity (the "thickness" of an oil) at very high temperatures Reduced engine deposits, which are the "by-products" of combustion in the engine

Also, you might check this out...
http://www.mobil1.com/index.jsp

 

[TX_TTA]

(Moderator may also want to post this in TTA Forum due to some of the TTA specific content.)

Jason,

Here is some data, however due to significant architectural differences between the TTA cooler and the Buick one, direct comparisons are not possible. My experience will not prove or disprove the restrictive nature of the Buick cooler, but it should be of value in evaluating the consequences, if any of deleting the cooler.

Sorry for the length, but I want to give some background for perspective, and so that you can follow my thread of logic.

I did a heads and cam install on my TTA in 1996. While doing the cam, I observed abnormal wear on the cam bearings. The bottom half (load side) of the cam bearings were worn such that pink copper was showing through the gray lead overlay. They were not scored, the cam journals looked ok, and the car’s oil pressure was fine. They just looked like a car with high miles. Problem is, I bought the car new, and as of this swap the car and stock engine had 7,000 (yes, seven thousand) miles on it so it should not have had this wear.

My TTA, and the other one just like it I test drove before buying mine, and the Buick GN I had before that all had what I consider excessive noise at cold startup. The noise is not a knock, it is just the noise one would hear in any engine that had a dry oil filter upon starting after an oil change. The noise offended me mostly because the ECM calls for 1600 rpm at cold start which always made me clench my teeth for a moment until it quieted down with oil pressure. The TTA’s were worse than the Buick, but not much. I attributed the abnormal wear I observed to this lack of cold startup lubrication and decided to address it. Also, since I was putting heads on it with stronger springs, I knew they would only aggravate the condition of the bearings if left alone.

The solution I chose was to install a PreLuber which is an electric oil pump that runs for about 10 seconds after turning the key to the “on” position prior to starting. It also runs for minute after shut off. This puts 50 psi in the system before starting and also serves to cool down my high dollar turbo at shut off. I selected a location for the output of the PreLuber that was adjacent to the oil filter so that its output would also always be filtered. This required drilling, tapping, and cleaning up these parts. Upon inspection of the parts, I found that the large, hollow bolt which serves to supply all the oil in this arrangement, had only (4) 3/16” holes drilled equally spaced around the circumference of the bolt, and that the entire oil volume had to negotiate these (4) little holes. I could now see why the noise existed at cold start even though the oil filter contains a check valve. These clearly limit the volume of thick, cold oil available. No doubt in my mind. I think this arrangement is specific to the TTA BTW. I also noticed that the “sandwich style” cooler on these cars appeared quite restrictive, and easy to plug up. In order to solve these additional issues I did the following:

I used a cut off wheel to remove the material between (2) of the (2) pairs of small holes in the large bolt. This resulted in (2) long oil feed slots rather than (4) tiny holes. The oil feed slots now cover a total of 1/2 of the circumference of the bolt (1/4 on (2) opposite sides). I also deleted the cooler based on the following reasoning. My coolant temps are always 160 to 170, and I always run Mobil 1. I cannot comment on whether or not Mobil one lowers oil temp as I have no data, but Mobil one does tolerate much higher oil temp before losing viscosity, or coking, and I believe it offers completely adequate protection in the environment I am operating it in.

After the modifications, I observed the following: 1) The noise at startup was completely eliminated due to the PreLuber, and more ready access to oil. 2) The engines oil pressure went up 15-20 psi cold and hot. It now runs 80 psi cold, and 60-65 hot still with stock volume and pressure oil pump. 3) That was 1996, and the same shortblock, cam, and turbo are still in it and fine. BTW, the PreLuber does not run while the engine is running so it does not factor into the increased oil pressure.

In short, I have personal experience that there is no downside to deleting the cooler. I think the cooler is there to cover the turbo bearings as well as the front cam lobes due to their proximity to the hot oil exiting the turbo. I believe this comes into play more in severe usage and neglect as is present in people who use cheap oil, don’t ever change it, and run the car hard, and shut it off. I don’t think it is an issue for those of us hobbyists who perform regular maintenance with quality oil. That is IMO of course.

FWIW,
Roger

 

[Jes]

i don't think a engine oil cooler is needed, accept during heavy duty long term usage = back to back to back runs at the track, towing, going up mountains, etc.

but i think an oil cooler for just the turbo would be a fine idea.