Dumbsh*t and more

[turbosam6]

Wow. Just, wow.


First off, attendance being down at GSCA events has nothing to do with there being less TR's on the road. As witnessed in this thread, people stopped attending because of the GSCA's BS. What BS you ask? I dunno, lets start with the drama in this thread. Lets talk about how much they charge just to attend the events. It is a business, not a club. You see, what you don't seem to understand is that "clubs" (at least in the automotive enthusiasts world) are NOT FOR PROFIT, and they exist to help their friends and racers with similar interests. If they do charge a membership fee it generally is very little and usually ends up saving members money in the long run with discounted event tickets and the like. I have belonged to several different clubs and can say I think the GSCA is by far the worst. No other club I have belonged to has tried to turn a profit. But hey, its your guys' business, run it how you want. Just don't expect people to want to join or maintain their membership.

You said you just wanted people to leave you alone? Heres a tip: Don't start threads like this one and talk sh!t about everyone.

And seriously dude, are you 15? Physical threats are useless beyond the fricking playground in elementary school. I haven't seen you but I gather from these posts you're some sort of big tough guy. While that is useful for intimidating drunk bikers at dive bars, it means nothing to a real adult. Besides, there is always someone bigger and badder. If you've been to jail you probably know that. I suppose you think you can walk through someones pit and scare them into submission? Real smart idea. You must not fear for your personal safety. I'm sure you can kick my ass, I've never been much of a fighter. I'm big enough to admit that and also big enough (physically) to stand my ground. However, you won't kick 5 or 6 guys' asses, and you're not bulletproof. So try to resolve stuff without the threats, it only makes people ignore any good point you might make.

You mention something about "enlighten you as to how much bigger other events are". Well, having owned and raced several different brands of cars, I have been to many different events. The nats have been the smallest. The LS1 series is bigger (and run infinitely better), the mustang races are obviously huge, as are the import events. These events get bigger every year, while the GS nats gets smaller.

I really enjoyed the buick events I went to, even the nats strictly because it was all buick stuff. The events held by the Chicagoland GSCA were awesome, that is how a car club should be run. $20 a year, and they probably lost money.

You act like its just one or two people complaining and causing problems. Pull your head out of the sand, lots of people are sick of it. Membership will continue to dwindle. You say the nats will continue to happen regardless. That doesn't mean people are going to show up.

 

[BillyRValentine]

Other events I've been to have racers meetings. The one at Indy last year took 30 minutes, maybe?

We get a poll together and if a general drivers meeting is wanted then we can try and fit one in. As for indy, that is a tough comparison because if my understanding is correct the total car count is not the same.

Yes, I got the track officials confused. Regardless though, I know what I was told, and it isn't what you've said. You weren't there. It was after I came back from my "by-run" that Brock changed what he was saying to the racers about by-runs.

Banning, either you or both Brock and I are under a false impression of what was said. I cannot prove to you any more that what I have already of what what stated. If I made a mistake I would gladly fix it. If someone under me made a mistake I would make sure to fix it but again I cannot turn back the hands of time to make sure you understand what was said.

Sorry Jim,
1. I was paying attention, and I did as I was told. If you guys had a little more insight and weren't so overworked and short-nerved this then might not be an issue.

It is not so much that as it is sometimes listening. I try and let folks finish what they are saying and not interject so as not to have this type of confusion.

2. I never let you explain what the club was willing to do? HA! You were the one that walked away, not me. I patiently waited for an answer from you from the 1st round to the 2nd round (how long was that?). I probably asked you 5 times who I could talk to in hope of getting this resolved. I went to the tower. Each time I asked you, you said you would find someone that I could talk to. Finally, 2nd round was called to run again and it was THEN that you said you didn't have time to talk about it and to get the car out of there.

Banning, I appologize if I didn't take the time to hear you out as you would have liked. Sometimes you have to stop me and say look I need your attention. You told me what was going on and after I realized which car you were in I was trying to figure out a way to get you back in without catching flack about it from other racers. Had I not heard what brock said I would have done it without issue.

Was I upset? After all that... you bet I was! Was I impossible to talk to? Absolutely NOT. There were probably a dozzen people there by the tower that I spoke with while I was waiting on you (I can give you names if you'd like), they'd all back me up on this.

I know you did and I was working on it as well as ten other things at the same time. I wasn't trying to ignore you.

I was just trying to make a point that if there was a "snafu" in one class, perhaps there were ones in other classes... perhaps like telling a racer that they had a by-run and not telling him that things had changed.

OK point taken.

Again, you never presented any options or an answer untill 2nd round and I was in my car ready to run.

I didn't have a straight answer until then. I appologize.

"Google it under bracket racing". That's nice, you've been a tremendous help.

It would be easier for you to read it Banning than it would be for me to sit here and type it out but the jist of it is this - A card is picked out of several others the number that is assigned to it is then counted out via the cars in line. That car is then pulled out in case there is a by run. If there is then they automatically move to the next round.

I tell you what I will do Banning. If you want to come next year you contact me and I will personally pay your entry fee. I am still offering you a solution, if you do not want it then so be it. I don't know what else to do for you.

Jim C.

 

[J Banning]

...You are trying to use my personal responses in antoher thread as a vehicle to make up excuses as to why you have not and now won't attend the Nats. You are looking for an azzkissing fest even though your friend has his facts confused and took the oppurtunity to take a pot shot at my friends (The GSCA staff.) with his thread on the other board. I see that you haven't even bothered to address that issue. Maybe it is because his oversight could have been easily cleared up by getting his facts in order.

I don't have my facts confused. I know what happened, and I know what little you did to help the situation. Based on the comments you've made in this thread, I think everyone else can now understand where I'm coming from.

He took it upon himself to take a jab at the exact club that you say he tirelessly promotes without having his facts in order and yet this is the type of character trait that you speak so highly of.

Making Boost was right. I went waaaay out of my way to try and help promote this event for you guys this year, AND to get as many of our club members to come down and enjoy it as a group.

Since you don't seem to have it in order or missed it in one of the previous posts I will say it again. When I post something in an official capacity for the GSCA I always sign my post "Jim C.-GSCA Race Director" when I am NOT I simply sign them - "Jim C.". Understand the difference? If not then there is no need for me to explain it to you.

You are kidding, right? I didn't know that as a preface to replying to any of your posts, we should review ALL your previous posts for any notes on how to decipher your signature. LOL!

In my opinion, whenever you hold an official position - no matter if it is club Race Director, Mayor, or President of the USA - any comments you make, no matter where they are said or how they are said/written, will not just reflect on you but the position you hold, and the people you serve.

I see how you and other club reps act and I not only think about you, but also the club.

Damn... think about it!

 

[J Banning]

I appreciate your comments in your last post. I didn't see them when I posted mine.

Arguing over the screwup with my car at the Nats is stupid. That isn't/wasn't my intention. Was I mad? Yes! Am I still, sure. That happened weeks ago, and nothing is going to change it.

I'd like to try and point out issues that should be looked at, and hopefully corrected for next years event. What can be done better?

Not just for this event, but for others as well.

 

[BillyRValentine]

Wow. Just, wow.


First off, attendance being down at GSCA events has nothing to do with there being less TR's on the road. As witnessed in this thread, people stopped attending because of the GSCA's BS. What BS you ask? I dunno, lets start with the drama in this thread. Lets talk about how much they charge just to attend the events. It is a business, not a club. You see, what you don't seem to understand is that "clubs" (at least in the automotive enthusiasts world) are NOT FOR PROFIT, and they exist to help their friends and racers with similar interests. If they do charge a membership fee it generally is very little and usually ends up saving members money in the long run with discounted event tickets and the like. I have belonged to several different clubs and can say I think the GSCA is by far the worst. No other club I have belonged to has tried to turn a profit. But hey, its your guys' business, run it how you want. Just don't expect people to want to join or maintain their membership.

This could turn into an entire diatribe as the one you posted above. Instead I will say that you have shown your true colors now by resorting to the same old rhetoric of "it's a business, not a club". What a load. I bet that you have NO IDEA what kind of money it takes to run the Nats. I bet you can't even tell me what the track rental and insurance costs alone are can you? Even staff expenses? That is what I thought, as such do me a favor and give someone else that tired old routine as it has been played out for years. If the club makes a few dollars, so what. I know that part of it goes right into the next event which is Reynolds and that is not a money maker by far. Richard does it as a means for folks to get together and have a good time. You did just what I expected you too which was jump up on your soap box and start preaching about how the GSCA is evil money grubbers but have nothing to offer up as proof other than the conjector of your cronies.

You said you just wanted people to leave you alone? Heres a tip: Don't start threads like this one and talk sh!t about everyone.

No one is talking sh*t about everyone and yet again you are one that takes something from a completely UNRELATED thread and tries to use it as ammo. Slimy tactics period. If I need your conduct advice I will ask otherwise let's stick to the facts.

And seriously dude, are you 15? Physical threats are useless beyond the fricking playground in elementary school. I haven't seen you but I gather from these posts you're some sort of big tough guy. While that is useful for intimidating drunk bikers at dive bars, it means nothing to a real adult. Besides, there is always someone bigger and badder. If you've been to jail you probably know that. I suppose you think you can walk through someones pit and scare them into submission? Real smart idea. You must not fear for your personal safety. I'm sure you can kick my ass, I've never been much of a fighter. I'm big enough to admit that and also big enough (physically) to stand my ground. However, you won't kick 5 or 6 guys' asses, and you're not bulletproof. So try to resolve stuff without the threats, it only makes people ignore any good point you might make.

Again, you make reference to a completely unrelated post and want to bait me into something else. That is for the other thread and you should stick to the facts of this one. I am glad to hear you would stand your ground and as a man you should.

You mention something about "enlighten you as to how much bigger other events are". Well, having owned and raced several different brands of cars, I have been to many different events. The nats have been the smallest. The LS1 series is bigger (and run infinitely better), the mustang races are obviously huge, as are the import events. These events get bigger every year, while the GS nats gets smaller.

You talking about the LS1Tech series? I too have been there. As far as it being bigger I don't know about that and better run well that is hard to say. There are one h*ll of allot more LS1/2 powered cars on the road that there are turbo Buicks though.

I really enjoyed the buick events I went to, even the nats strictly because it was all buick stuff. The events held by the Chicagoland GSCA were awesome, that is how a car club should be run. $20 a year, and they probably lost money.

Folks don't want to lose money. The reason the GSCA is able to rent the track for an entire week is because it has made enough money to do so.

You act like its just one or two people complaining and causing problems. Pull your head out of the sand, lots of people are sick of it. Membership will continue to dwindle. You say the nats will continue to happen regardless. That doesn't mean people are going to show up.

One or two individuals no but it is less than one or two percent of the Buick community. How is that for some statistics? The funny thing is that the membership is not "dwindling" because people are so tired of the GSCA. The membership has dropped some over the last TEN YEARS as people have moved on to other cars and or gotten out of the car hobby. Have some decided not to be part of the GSCA; sure but it is not the amount that some 20 or so people claim. For you to say that the Nats doesn't have the turnout it did some 8-10 years ago not being related to the amount of these cars on the road is obtuse and opinionated to say the least. As for people not showing up I will offer up this - "Those that matter don't mind and those that mind don't matter".

Jim C.

 

[BillyRValentine]

I appreciate your comments in your last post. I didn't see them when I posted mine.

Arguing over the screwup with my car at the Nats is stupid. That isn't/wasn't my intention. Was I mad? Yes! Am I still, sure. That happened weeks ago, and nothing is going to change it.

I'd like to try and point out issues that should be looked at, and hopefully corrected for next years event. What can be done better?

Not just for this event, but for others as well.

Banning, I would love to hear any insight that you may have to offer. If you like PM me and I will shoot you my numbers. I firmly believe that many minds will always out perform a few.

Jim C.

 

[BillyRValentine]

Sorry for having to drag this BS over here but since I cannot post over there (I have no idea why.) I had to address it in this forum.

Are you sure you cant post over there? Please explain cuz I dont believe you?
If I am wrong please accept my apology, but please prove me wrong first!

By the way, I am not the only one who has had trouble loggin on. - So hey, DCPTCN can't log in? - TurboBuicks.com So do me a favor don't insult me and then offer up and apology all in the same sentence, it's an azz backwards way to do things. Do me a favor and get your sh*t together before insulting me. I have no reason to lie about it. You call me a liar and then say basically - "Oh, but if I am wrong sorry". I have never been afraid to stand up over there in the face of many of those that have ganged up on me when I took a stand for what I thought was right.

Jim C.

 

[BillyRValentine]

A prime example Long Duck Dong Jim C. - TurboBuicks.com of the nutless tactics used by those that are too chickensh*t to stand up and tell folks how they feel. This is a prime example of the crap that some have slung from their little hidey holes and then duck back under their rock when they thing someone is looking. Yet they will post just how classy they are when using their regular user names yet do slimey sh*t such as this, you are not a man you are an ameba. They have to do it anonymously but then again what would anyone expect from a man that pees sitting down? Can't even think up his own user name. He just wants to take a pot shot at both Jim Rodgers and I from under his rock. At least it is funny.

Jim C.

 

[Ted]

BillyRValentine:

I will attempt to keep this short, and to the point. I am not upset in the least as I right this, just want a few comments to be heard much like GN SBS.

Look, I have been to the Nats many times and I have yet to hear anyone say anything good about the GSCA or how the event is run. This is no secret that people are not happy, you have to know this. If not "we the people" are saying this, many of us don't like where things are going.

The racers that come say they come for the people, and if you don't come the only one that loses is you. They never say its for the GSCA or how the race is run. The problem is, once the people stop coming then there is no reason to go.

With power comes responsibility, and that is where the GSCA has failed the Buick community.

We are here for the cars and to have fun, all these politics are ridiculous. The rival events keep getting bigger every year, and I know several people who will keep going to other events instead of the Nats. If and when something like the BPG event grows bigger then the Nats without all the fees and nonsense what then? Anymore nobody cares about being in the club they just want a great event. When there is a great event with all the race classes; good payouts; all the who's who in the Buick world; and no hassles, what then?

Just my two cents...

Oh well, it wasn't that short :biggrin:

 

[Dwayne]

BillyRValentine said "This could turn into an entire diatribe as the one you posted above. Instead I will say that you have shown your true colors now by resorting to the same old rhetoric of "it's a business, not a club". What a load. I bet that you have NO IDEA what kind of money it takes to run the Nats. I bet you can't even tell me what the track rental and insurance costs alone are can you? Even staff expenses? That is what I thought, as such do me a favor and give someone else that tired old routine as it has been played out for years. If the club makes a few dollars, so what. I know that part of it goes right into the next event which is Reynolds and that is not a money maker by far. Richard does it as a means for folks to get together and have a good time. You did just what I expected you too which was jump up on your soap box and start preaching about how the GSCA is evil money grubbers but have nothing to offer up as proof other than the conjector of your cronies."


So which is it ?........a business or a club ? If it's a club, then how about full financial disclosure concerning where the membership fees are going towards. If it is a business and I pay for a product or service, and am not happy with said product or service, then I have a right to ask why was I not satisfied for my money spent. Simple enough ?

 

[Just a Six??]

By the way, I am not the only one who has had trouble loggin on. - So hey, DCPTCN can't log in? - TurboBuicks.com So do me a favor don't insult me and then offer up and apology all in the same sentence, it's an azz backwards way to do things. Do me a favor and get your sh*t together before insulting me. I have no reason to lie about it. You call me a liar and then say basically - "Oh, but if I am wrong sorry". I have never been afraid to stand up over there in the face of many of those that have ganged up on me when I took a stand for what I thought was right.

Jim C.

You should stand up for what you believe in 100% but never meeting you & only reading some of the questionable things you have posted, along with knowing that you can post anything you like no matter who likes it or not on the other board, I felt it was an honest question? I guess that you had a problem but lets face it, its really rare that it would happen, no matter what you had to say whether negative or not? Maybe you will choose to reply to some of the comments there now that all is fixed & maybe you wont?
Altho, its not my business or concern except that I didnt think Mike would intentionally not let you post something? That was the only question I asked about? Accidents do happen? Have a drink cuz I think you may need one!

By the way I'm lazy & do PEE sitting down!

 

[GN SBS]

The racers that come say they come for the people, and if you don't come the only one that loses is you. They never say its for the GSCA or how the race is run. The problem is, once the people stop coming then there is no reason to go.

With power comes responsibility, and that is where the GSCA has failed the Buick community.

Very enlightened use of a classic sentiment.

 

[GN SBS]

Banning, I would love to hear any insight that you may have to offer. If you like PM me and I will shoot you my numbers. I firmly believe that many minds will always out perform a few.

Jim C.

This is a very constructive comment and a good idea.

But rather than making the discussion private, why not make it a public dialog? I would suggest creating a new thread on that very subject using just that sentiment-- that many minds out perform a few. Just ignore any non-productive remarks.

I maintain that a lot of good could be done when tempers cool down. And maybe some new leaders would emerge.

-Scott

 

[GN SBS]

I bet that you have NO IDEA what kind of money it takes to run the Nats. I bet you can't even tell me what the track rental and insurance costs alone are can you? Even staff expenses?

Jim C.

Of course he can't, no one at the GSCA has ever disclosed this and all of these costs are highly negotiable-- no one other than those at the table can guess what they are. If you know, please please tell us as a goodwill gesture. I know it's difficult to calculate it exactly, but how a rough +/- 20% estimate?

I wonder Jim (and I'm sincerely not being a wise-@ss in making this comment), does anyone other than Richard know what the costs and revenues are? And by know, I mean actually having worked through the costs and receipts, not told by word of mouth. It's not hard to pull a ball park estimate together on the revenues side and it ends up being a heck of a lot of money.

I don't expect a response, but this is the type of thinking that ends up motivating the business vs. club question asking. Again, I'm really trying to be constructive here.

If it's a club and all on the up-and-up, how about allowing members to view the annual IRS filings? There is an IRS filing, right? If it's a for-profit that's fine too, but then we should all be clear about this-- AND the GSCA should think of us all as customers.

Scott

 

[top gun]

Wow. Just, wow.




And seriously dude, are you 15? Physical threats are useless beyond the fricking playground in elementary school. I haven't seen you but I gather from these posts you're some sort of big tough guy. While that is useful for intimidating drunk bikers at dive bars, it means nothing to a real adult. Besides, there is always someone bigger and badder. If you've been to jail you probably know that. I suppose you think you can walk through someones pit and scare them into submission? Real smart idea. You must not fear for your personal safety. I'm sure you can kick my ass, I've never been much of a fighter. I'm big enough to admit that and also big enough (physically) to stand my ground. However, you won't kick 5 or 6 guys' asses, and you're not bulletproof. So try to resolve stuff without the threats, it only makes people ignore any good point you might make.

You make some great points turbosam!

 

[BillyRValentine]

You make some great points turbosam!

And just when I thought this thread might take a turn for the better the dribble arives to stir the pot yet again.

Jim C.

 

[BillyRValentine]

This is a very constructive comment and a good idea.

But rather than making the discussion private, why not make it a public dialog? I would suggest creating a new thread on that very subject using just that sentiment-- that many minds out perform a few. Just ignore any non-productive remarks.

I maintain that a lot of good could be done when tempers cool down. And maybe some new leaders would emerge.

-Scott

Scott, I believe that you are correct as we could find some wonderful ideas within the collective minds here. However the problem with making a discussion like that public is that without fail certain individuals would simply jump into the thread with useless banter and it would only end up being a toilet product. For example just take a look at Mr. Dribble (See Bamford) himself with the statement above. This thread has the potential to take a very constructive turn but as usual some azz clown wants to show up and stir the pot to take it back onto the path it was on before.

Jim C.

 

[BillyRValentine]

So which is it ?........a business or a club ? If it's a club, then how about full financial disclosure concerning where the membership fees are going towards. If it is a business and I pay for a product or service, and am not happy with said product or service, then I have a right to ask why was I not satisfied for my money spent. Simple enough ?

I am sorry but I must have missed the part when I signed up that stated that all financial statements will be made public to it's members. If I did then maybe that is something that I need to address with Richard. When all the personal attacks, supposed safety issues, stealing, power trips and lack of payout BS fails there is always the good ole "Is it a business or a club?" issue; huh? Last time I checked I saw that it was a club but have yet to ever see anywhere that any financial statements would be posted. There are lots of others who don't seem to have an issue with it, only a few and those few are a VERY small percentage of the membership. Speaking of that, are you a member?

Jim C.

 

[BillyRValentine]

Of course he can't, no one at the GSCA has ever disclosed this and all of these costs are highly negotiable-- no one other than those at the table can guess what they are. If you know, please please tell us as a goodwill gesture. I know it's difficult to calculate it exactly, but how a rough +/- 20% estimate?

I wonder Jim (and I'm sincerely not being a wise-@ss in making this comment), does anyone other than Richard know what the costs and revenues are? And by know, I mean actually having worked through the costs and receipts, not told by word of mouth. It's not hard to pull a ball park estimate together on the revenues side and it ends up being a heck of a lot of money.

I don't expect a response, but this is the type of thinking that ends up motivating the business vs. club question asking. Again, I'm really trying to be constructive here.

If it's a club and all on the up-and-up, how about allowing members to view the annual IRS filings? There is an IRS filing, right? If it's a for-profit that's fine too, but then we should all be clear about this-- AND the GSCA should think of us all as customers.

Scott

I do have some numbers but would it be prudent to post them here; no. I can state that it is run on a much tighter budget than most would think. Even if it were posted the typical bunch of agitators would only say that it was all BS and start with the typical rhetoric. People pay there dues to come to the event and race. Somehow or another soemwhere along the line some began to think that membership was to include running or having input over how things are run. There are many clubs that are run many different ways and if this is their method then so be it. I hope you understand that I am not trying to be a smart alec but more-so simply lending my insight into what I see. Think about it, if Richard were trying to make this a business then there are allot of things he could do to make money with the GSCA. That is not what it is about and never has been. The bottom line is that there are those that believe that they are the only ones who know how things SHOULD be run and when told that is not the way they will be have taken issue with the GSCA instead of either no longer being a member or realizing that hey it is not my club. The ones that have started there own events have quickly realized that there is very little if any profit involved in these type of venues. The margin for profit is not what you would think. It was mentioned that other venues make money. Well sure, I have spoken with George Howard at a couple of races and it takes allot of advertising and BIG money sponsors to bring in the real money.

Jim C.

 

[gbsean]

yes this could possibly turn into a constructive thread, but unfortunatly the powers that can make the decisions in my opinion fail to listen. I would love to go back to Bowling Green, I have some fond memories,My Son was concieved at the event in Columbus, trouble is most of them are outside the track in the parking lots of the hotels at the Auto Parts store, at the clubs or bars. The Racing was good in the late 90's too. Maybe you could talk to the Directors of the GSCA and they can start a thread on their own website....just an observation that why is it no one visits that site...I mean it has been a while and the Results have not been posted. You as Race Director should have some control over that. This is the information age and the GS-Extra just does not cut it anymore. Make it an online magazine. Even some of the loudest distractors of the GS nationals have some valid points and the GSCA has some too....But if more people..(and I am seeing it now) who have not said anything before are now speaking and the loudmouths are being quiet. That there is telling me something. If the GSCA is willing to listen then I am sure the event can get back to its glory days...or maybe it's time has just run it's course...it does happen sooner or later you are not the only soda on the shelf...again just my opinions...but they have been echoed by others that don't post on websites...I wish you well and no hard feelings