Does a Ta49 work better with a convertor swap?

[coach]

Hey Guys,
I have a gut feeling that my stock 200 is not liking the 49 pushing 24#'s very much. I have another core I am getting built by Vince Janis and was wondering if the 49 would run even better with a convertor swap. I am building a different engine, hopefully this winter, with a Te45a on it. I want a PTC behind that engine. The convertor I need for the 45 will not work with a 49 will it? I do not want to buy 2 convertors, so WS6 has an Art Carr 9" 3200 non-lock-up ,he will let me run until the new motor is done. Let me hear your thoughts on what I should do. Buy the PTC or use the Art Carr with the 49?

Picking brains as normal,
Coach

 

[Sweet6]

The AC 3200 will be fine. It will spool great. I run a 3200 with my GT32 and it is great on the street. Instant boost.

 

[87NAT]

PM Dusty about the PTC and tell him your setup. He will get you dialed in on the right converter.

 

[87granny]

I have a pro-torque 3200-3400 pushing my 49 feels good and spools the 49 like a son of b!tc#

 

[at7we2]

FWIW, I'm running the exact converter you're talking about (Art Carr 9" non-l/u 3200) with a TE-44. If I'm not mistaken the 44 is almost identical in flow and spool characteristics to a 49. My GN originally had the AC 9" and a TE45a on it when I bought it. I didn't like the street manners so swapped the 45a and PTE front-mount for a 44 and stock IC. I haven't changed the converter yet but I plan to. The 44 spools insanely quick with that converter which is fun when I'm playing around but the gas mileage is horrible since it's a non-lockup. If you can stand the gas mileage then you'd probably like that converter with a TA49 and then you'd be ready to go with the 45a. One thing to consider though, if you're going to dive the car on the street much, I would definatley give some thought to shucking out the $$ for a lockup converter just to help with gas mileage if nothing else.

Oh and another thing to consider, if you run a high stall, non-lockup converter be sure to add a very high-capacity transmission cooler - especially if you drive it on the street much! All that constant "slippage" puts a lot of heat into the trans. fluid.

HTH

 

[turbo nasty]

When running L/U keep it as tight as possible so it will be effiecient in 3rd unlocked at WOT

 

[Two T's]

Ran a pats 3400 non lu converter on mine with te44 wile waiting to get my te45a and for lack of words it was instant spool like running a dual bb if i would stay in it would leave rubber for half a block or more was a hole lot of street fun
then put in 45a and everything equalized out works great on 45a now best conv. for money I ever spent

 

[Dusty Bradford]

FWIW, I'm running the exact converter you're talking about (Art Carr 9" non-l/u 3200) with a TE-44. If I'm not mistaken the 44 is almost identical in flow and spool characteristics to a 49. My GN originally had the AC 9" and a TE45a on it when I bought it. I didn't like the street manners so swapped the 45a and PTE front-mount for a 44 and stock IC. I haven't changed the converter yet but I plan to. The 44 spools insanely quick with that converter which is fun when I'm playing around but the gas mileage is horrible since it's a non-lockup. If you can stand the gas mileage then you'd probably like that converter with a TA49 and then you'd be ready to go with the 45a. One thing to consider though, if you're going to dive the car on the street much, I would definatley give some thought to shucking out the $$ for a lockup converter just to help with gas mileage if nothing else.

Oh and another thing to consider, if you run a high stall, non-lockup converter be sure to add a very high-capacity transmission cooler - especially if you drive it on the street much! All that constant "slippage" puts a lot of heat into the trans. fluid.

HTH

One thing to consider is the new non locks are nothing like the old non locks everyone has heard about. The newer ones drive much better because of the design. I have saw some of the old AC rated at 3200 were more like 3400-3500 and you could tell it by the way they drove.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Hey Guys,
I have a gut feeling that my stock 200 is not liking the 49 pushing 24#'s very much. I have another core I am getting built by Vince Janis and was wondering if the 49 would run even better with a convertor swap. I am building a different engine, hopefully this winter, with a Te45a on it. I want a PTC behind that engine. The convertor I need for the 45 will not work with a 49 will it? I do not want to buy 2 convertors, so WS6 has an Art Carr 9" 3200 non-lock-up ,he will let me run until the new motor is done. Let me hear your thoughts on what I should do. Buy the PTC or use the Art Carr with the 49?

Picking brains as normal,
Coach

I could spec the converter for the new set-up and it would work with the TA-49. It would spool much quicker than the TE-45A will. But if you can borrow a converter until your new motor is ready you may want to go that route.

 

[at7we2]

One thing to consider is the new non locks are nothing like the old non locks everyone has heard about. The newer ones drive much better because of the design. I have saw some of the old AC rated at 3200 were more like 3400-3500 and you could tell it by the way they drove.

Hey Dusty, thanks for chiming in. The AC 9" I'm running *is* old and I wouldn't be surprised if it's stalling higher than 3200, like you said, just based on my "butt dyno".

I wasn't aware the newer high-stall converters had better street manners - how is that accomplished? (not trying to hi-jack the thread, but I thought the other posters, including "Coach" might be interested also)

 

[Mr.Spool]

coach the 49 loves a converter.i have seen the 49 run successfully with a ac9inch 3500,although i run and prefer the 10.5 3200 protorque lockup.cannot advise you on the ptc but from what i hear and see that nonlocker ptc will get it done as well.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Hey Dusty, thanks for chiming in. The AC 9" I'm running *is* old and I wouldn't be surprised if it's stalling higher than 3200, like you said, just based on my "butt dyno".

I wasn't aware the newer high-stall converters had better street manners - how is that accomplished? (not trying to hi-jack the thread, but I thought the other posters, including "Coach" might be interested also)

You can test your stall if you'd like to know how it compares to other converters out there. Just footbrake the car until you get 0-1# on the boost gauge and get the rpm reading.

So much has changed since the days of the Art Carr. The newer converters use totally different cores, stator and pump designs. We tried to get something that would drive and stall pretty low at low load situations which is why I can spool a fairly large turbo with a 3000 stall rating. Once the converter sees more load at low rpm it loosens up to help spool the turbo. The same design then will couple up with increasing rpm to deliver the efficiency.

The AC design actually still works well. It does seem looser all over compared to some of the newer style converters. The biggest advantage to the newer converters is the designs work better with the low rpm Buick engine's and deliver better et and mph. The AC is a really good converter on a car that sees 6500+ rpm.

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

I see... Quick question for ya Mr. Bradford.
I have a really old 2800, (i was told 2800) 12" l/u in my car now. I've nothing to compare it to as this is the only gn i've driven.
So, factoring in that it's old, and that I will only be using a 49 or smaller turbo for a while, and that I want the lowest rpm's, and lowest noise possible while on the freeway, should I now try a 2400 10" L/U?
Am I guessing, that even though I should be at a 2800 for best spool, that the smaller diameter (less rotating weight) and newer design 2400 would spool just as quick, but be tighter on the top end?

The new era 24's get the same performance as the old 28's? How far off am I.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

I see... Quick question for ya Mr. Bradford.
I have a really old 2800, (i was told 2800) 12" l/u in my car now. I've nothing to compare it to as this is the only gn i've driven.
So, factoring in that it's old, and that I will only be using a 49 or smaller turbo for a while, and that I want the lowest rpm's, and lowest noise possible while on the freeway, should I now try a 2400 10" L/U?
Am I guessing, that even though I should be at a 2800 for best spool, that the smaller diameter (less rotating weight) and newer design 2400 would spool just as quick, but be tighter on the top end?

The new era 24's get the same performance as the old 28's? How far off am I.

I'm betting your 12" won't stall near 2800. Footbrake the car until you get 0# on the boost gauge and get the rpm reading. It's probably 2200-2400. If it's 2400, you can gain some spool and 60 foot time by going to the 10" 2400 but it may not mph as well as the 12" converter. The 12" converters are pretty tight everywhere so it's hard to out mph them.

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

I should have mentioned this before. I don't ''mph'' anyone.. I don't go to the track, and all my racing is the 1/8th mile. Quick spool is what I'm after. But if I could get a low rpm while cruising, and keep it quiet too, then I'm all the more happier.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

I should have mentioned this before. I don't ''mph'' anyone.. I don't go to the track, and all my racing is the 1/8th mile. Quick spool is what I'm after. But if I could get a low rpm while cruising, and keep it quiet too, then I'm all the more happier.

I'm the same way........mph doesn't win races.

I'd run the 10" 2800 with your combo. Do the stall test I described and see where your at. If it's only 2400, you will gain a good bit by running the 2800 10". If your stall test does prove your at 2800......you'll need the 3200 version of the 10".

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

Well, explain to me the differences in behavior between the two, (2400 and 2800) while cruising on the street at 35, and on the highway at 70.
And this stall test. What am I looking for, while the boost gauge goes to zero? I don't get that test you described. Also, my GN doesn't have a tach....

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Well, explain to me the differences in behavior between the two, (2400 and 2800) while cruising on the street at 35, and on the highway at 70.
And this stall test. What am I looking for, while the boost gauge goes to zero? I don't get that test you described. Also, my GN doesn't have a tach....

The tighter converter will always drive better.......it will have more of a stock converter feel for those guys that don't like a real noticeable stall. At 35 the 2400 will just feel tighter meaning it will have a lower cruise rpm at that mph. When you pull away from a stoplight, the lower stall will have to reach less rpm before the car starts moving. At 70 you won't know any difference because it will be locked by the ecm.

You don't have any sort of scan tool like a scanmaster or power logger? If not, you need at least a scanmaster to help you sort the car out.

You footbrake the car to build some rpm while holding the car with the brakes. When the boost gauge gets to 0#, get the rpm reading from the scantool. This is the stall data you need before making another converter choice.

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

The tighter converter will always drive better.......it will have more of a stock converter feel for those guys that don't like a real noticeable stall. At 35 the 2400 will just feel tighter meaning it will have a lower cruise rpm at that mph. When you pull away from a stoplight, the lower stall will have to reach less rpm before the car starts moving. At 70 you won't know any difference because it will be locked by the ecm.

You don't have any sort of scan tool like a scanmaster or power logger? If not, you need at least a scanmaster to help you sort the car out.

You footbrake the car to build some rpm while holding the car with the brakes. When the boost gauge gets to 0#, get the rpm reading from the scantool. This is the stall data you need before making another converter choice.

Now we're gettin' somewhere. I'm gettin the hang of this. So tell me this then.
When I'm drivin on the street, and I ease into the throttle very slowly, just as anyone does when pulling away from a red light, and as the transmission goes thru it's gears, I can see, feel, and hear the rpm's reaching up higher and higher, as they usually do right before a gear change, but they just don't make that final change on my car below around 35.
I'm driving at 35 even, and the car's freakin' at 2100 rpm's or so. It's not till I reach 37 mph, for about an even 5 seconds or so, till that last little 'gear change' (if that's what it is) happens. Then, my rpm's switch back down to normal again.
Is this my transmission, or my tcc lockup. I was askin eric marshall, ''what if I had you burn my chip for a 35mph tcc lockup. Would that change it? He said no, it would make the car jumpy.

So since my TC is very old technology, and it's original intention was 2800, could it actually be closer to 3000?

My turbo spools pretty dam quickly. Will a top of the line new school 10" 2400 spool at least the same, while still giving me lower cruise rpm's?

Thank you soo much for answering my million and one, newby transmission dissect questions. I really appreciate it.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Now we're gettin' somewhere. I'm gettin the hang of this. So tell me this then.
When I'm drivin on the street, and I ease into the throttle very slowly, just as anyone does when pulling away from a red light, and as the transmission goes thru it's gears, I can see, feel, and hear the rpm's reaching up higher and higher, as they usually do right before a gear change, but they just don't make that final change on my car below around 35.
I'm driving at 35 even, and the car's freakin' at 2100 rpm's or so. It's not till I reach 37 mph, for about an even 5 seconds or so, till that last little 'gear change' (if that's what it is) happens. Then, my rpm's switch back down to normal again.
Is this my transmission, or my tcc lockup. I was askin eric marshall, ''what if I had you burn my chip for a 35mph tcc lockup. Would that change it? He said no, it would make the car jumpy.

So since my TC is very old technology, and it's original intention was 2800, could it actually be closer to 3000?

My turbo spools pretty dam quickly. Will a top of the line new school 10" 2400 spool at least the same, while still giving me lower cruise rpm's?

Thank you soo much for answering my million and one, newby transmission dissect questions. I really appreciate it.

What your getting at 35 mph is probably just the shift calibration when the trans shifts into 3rd gear. The feel of the converter is different. A lower stall converter will make the shift more noticeable by the rpm's dropping off more than a higher stall. If the car shifts at 3000 rpm at part throttle and drops to 2400, it may only drop to 2800 with a looser converter and it will feel like the car is gliding through the gears. The higher stall is more noticeable when pulling away from a stop light or climbing a hill at low rpm. A low stall may only need 2000 rpm to get the car moving, the high stall will need 2400 or more. The higher the stall, the worse it gets.

Do the stall check before doing anything with the new converter. I'm betting your 12" won't even go 2400 at 0#. Until we know the stall of what you currently have, there's no way to definately say how a new converter will behave with your car but here's what I'll guess. Your 12" will probably only go 2200-2400 at 0# so a 10" 2400 will increase spool time and feel much better at the hit of the throttle. Your cruise rpm's while unlocked will be slightly higher, while locked there will be no change.