DEAD Short!!!! Fusible Link Blowing....

[TClassic]

I recently Purchased a Mint Low Mile-Mint (10.900mi) TTA , so this is really my first experience with the F bodys, I've had Turbo Buicks for years, several of them since '87, and know them pretty well, so ......on Sunday I was heading to a car Show nearby and hit a Dip/Bump and lost power COMPLETELY, had it towed home and saw that a Fuseable Link in the Starter area (Specifically one of the five that come down from the main engine wiring harness with Ring Terminals to the Starter Soleoid) had blown...now I haven't had ANY electrical problems with the car, and it is my understanding that for a Fuseable Link to go there has to be a Rather BIG Power surge???
Is that correct?? Could hitting a Dip/Bump have somehow knocked something lose???..??

Well I couldn't find any visible broken wires so I just replaced the one that blew..started the car back up, drove about 2 miles or so and....DEAD AGAIN well I AAA'ed it home again?? I guess I have no choice but to begin SERIOUS DisAssembly of this Masterpiece to find a Broken wire Somewhere
GREAT !!

 

[TClassic]

TTT I pay 18k for the nicest TTA in the entire Northeast by far and now this!!!

 

[MaxVO2]

TTT I pay 18k for the nicest TTA in the entire Northeast by far and now this!!!

*****Sometimes bad stuff happens even to people who pay 180k for a nice little turboprop plane - difference is that if they are in the air, and their power goes out, they die.. Get over it and move on - it's an old car and stuff happens no matter how nice it is.

There might be a good chance that there is a break in the insulation on the positive cable going to the starter - check the underside of the cable for breaks. Also, check and make sure the negative battery cable is hooked up properly. If you have *carefully* checked and found no breaks in the insulation causing a short, check continuity with an ohm meter, and wiggle the heck out of both cables to see if there is an internal break somewhere that motion causes problems with..

Also check fusible links at starter, especially their junction with the rest of the wiring - they sometimes break there, but not completely, and the insulation sort of holds the wire together when the car is cold. Anyway, they heat up, and the car goes dead. I know you replaced them, but it's tight down there and easy to not have a good connection if you replaced them in a hurry, etc..

If still no dice, check the positive wire going to the alternator, and make sure it is not shorting out against an accessory, or that it's end at the ring terminal hasn't separated and is shorting against the case or other nearby metal. Also check the wires insulation on the underside where it goes into the loom, and where it comes back out on it's other end. It could have chafed open against something, and be shorting out on bumps.

If still no dice, check the battery terminals themselves and make sure they have not pulled out or are otherwise cracked in their slot, and loose. Load test the battery if you can, or swap in a known good one temporarily to rule that end out.

The above is a start, and can be done without really having to tear into it too much. If none of the above pans out, and you have aftermarket alarm(s), gauges like an ammeter, or other accesories, start checking those connections first as they can make a mess of your wiring with their hookups.

At least you had AAA. Around here, a tow without AAA is going to run $100 almost regardless of where ya go..

Good luck, and hope it works out to be an easy fix

Billy
Montgomery Village, MD

 

[TClassic]

THANKS Bill,

Before I blew the same Fuse Link a third time I decided to take the Starter out and put it on the Tester and Apparantly it checks out bad, it's only putting out 10 volts and was Arching Intermitantly - I Guess that could cause the Link to blow, I'll find out tommorow when I put the New Delco in.....maybe when I bottomed out on that bump it took the starter out...

And you're right..it's not the end of the world...

Thanks Again

 

[FlyinGN]

Id say jim C has the NICEST TTA in the entire Northeast.. by far..

Don't you agree?

TTT I pay 18k for the nicest TTA in the entire Northeast by far and now this!!!

 

[TClassic]

Uhhh..Sorry Frank just stating the facts

Both Dead equal cars...and one has 15,000 more miles than the other... Which one is worth more....doesn't take a Genius (No Offense)

 

[Razor]

Guess its not worth much if its broken

You need to identify the link and what circuit it goes to. The starter wont kill the link. As that is the source for power. Get the service manual out and the diagnostics. And careful, wrong size link can burn the car down.

Maybe from not driving the car gremlins start popping up....more than likely its wires rubbing somewhere theyre not suppossed to.

 

[TClassic]

Guess its not worth much if its broken

Thats Right Anyhow thanks Razor, I ordered the Service manual from Helm, and I'm going to have a go next weekend (too bad the 3 Volume Buick service manual I have here is just a paperweight) - also you were right about the starter(wasted $150.00), I DID defenitly narrow it down to the 1 10mm Red wire from the Fuselink that powers just about everything exept the parking lights and mirrors, and I've pretty much got the harness apart, and it (that red wire) looks good so far..about all five ft that I can see for now...where does this wire wind up/Split off, any ideas(I guess I'll find out when the $180.00 manual gets here)???

 

[83ttypecooled]

Hi,
Razor's right, and you are too, that the only relatively easy way to diagnose a dead short to ground is with a wiring diagram. I would personally focus on the engine compartment for the offending wire(s). There is much more likelyhood under the hood than elsewhere. Finding which circuit is involved will narrow the search. I have had some trouble identifying GM fusible links in the past, so watch out for wild goose chases. Good luck with your trouble!

 

[TClassic]

Well as of yesterday I have the entire Engine harness apart (Exposed) and it all looks good...anybody know if a bad FAN RELAY could do it (Break the Link)???

Hopefully the manual will be here on Friday (helm did give a tracking number)..

 

[3.8TransAM]

Bad relay more than likely wont do it , unless it melted down or too something.

Could be a ground issue too, causing excessive draw as well.

Your situation to me, sounds more like a short on B+ somewhere, since u said it happens when u hit a bump.

Just figure out where the circuit comes together at. Then isolate the branches one at a time and use a volt/ohm meter to check the individual sections for continuity to grd.

later
Jeremy

 

[TClassic]

Just figure out where the circuit comes together at. Then isolate the branches one at a time and use a volt/ohm meter to check the individual sections for continuity to grd.

Thanks Jeremy, I followed the Red Fuse link wire all the way through the harness till it Ends at the driver side Plug-In to the Fuse Block, and the wire looks perfect, as do the Relays like you mentioned....what did you mean by B+???

 

[3.8TransAM]

B+ meant battery positive, the 12v source.

As in you have a short on the power side of a circuit somewhere.

If u got your wiring diagrams from helms already, u should be able to verify the circuit.

If its possible and might be a big pia, disconnect everything on the cirsuit and isolate it down.

Find and easy break and see of the problem exists and try to break it down one section at a time.

With everything disconnected, ohm the power side of the circuit and see if u have any continuity to ground. Should test OL everytime, if not u found your problem.

later
Jeremy

 

[TClassic]

If its possible and might be a big pia, disconnect everything on the cirsuit and isolate it down.

<-- Thats exactly what I'm planning on doing..

With everything disconnected, ohm the power side of the circuit and see if u have any continuity to ground. Should test OL everytime, if not u found your problem. [/QUOTE] <--I would think I WANT continuity to ground, Right?? Also what do you mean by OL??

Thanks Jeremy!!

 

[TClassic]

I would think I WANT continuity to ground, Right?? Also what do you mean by OL??

Thanks Jeremy!

 

[3.8TransAM]

If u have everything on the battery(power) side disocnnected thru the entire circuit. Not having continuity to ground would be what u want to see.

Having continuity to ground would mean the battery voltage side of the circuit is shorted to ground. If everythign is disconnected and working properly it should test OL(out of limits) if something is wrong and it is to ground it would have continuity.

later
Jeremy

 

[phillyturbosix]

Uhhh..Sorry Frank just stating the facts

Both Dead equal cars...and one has 15,000 more miles than the other... Which one is worth more....doesn't take a Genius (No Offense)

Brian take it to Terry Shaw and have it appraised! Terry just did mine and in a few weeks I should have the numbers back. He also told me he just did a TTA with under 2K on it. Said it was hard miles and wasn't taken care of properly. Terry then told me mine walked circles around it and for the miles was one of the nicest survivors he's seen. He also went on to say it will appraise much higher then one with under 2K on it! So the miles don't mean as much as people think! Razor also made a good point!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor
Guess its not worth much if its broken

 

[Turbo5]

TTT I pay 18k for the nicest TTA in the entire Northeast by far and now this!!!

Those must of been a hard 10,000 miles!

 

[TClassic]

Brian take it to Terry Shaw and have it appraised! :

I went to Terry Back in '94 with my White Limited with 39k on it then, on DK's advice, went to his house just north of Willow Grove mall somewhere, charged me ~$150 bucks and gave me a nice 3 page appraisal back then, but nowadays with Grundy Ins. and such it's really not neccessary as they have Stated Policy's anyhow -

Nice car show fodder for ya though, but I can think of better ways to spend a Buck Fifty.

 

[TClassic]

Those must of been a hard 10,000 miles!

Yup, REAL HARD - Maybe I'll just part the junker out