CRYRO treated valve springs WHO'S selling them?

[Rickracer]

Lots of cart racers do the whole engine...

...assembled. One arena that cryo treatment has made a huge impact is target shooting. Gun barrels that have been cryo treated are markedly and consistently more accurate. I found that to be an interesting aside to the matter. The treatment is done after all machining is done.

 

[KWIKR 1]

Originally posted by NOT FAST
This sucks, the whole engine has just been assembled. i dont feel like paying for it again

like I said when I first dropped into the shop to ask a few questions . They had 6 fully assembled Honda Canada Race engines waiting to go into the chamber . so they are being done completed . I'd talk to who ever maybe doing for you and see what they say . chances are they have done complete engines as well.

 

[KWIKR 1]

I've sent out a few emails to different Cryo places inviting them to post here on this thread concerning this . we'll see if anybody does .

 

[mcponch]

cryo

you know? awhile back. when I.H.R.A. had quick 32. that turned into top spotman? the champ can't think of his name? roy harris maybe? anyway it was the beginning of the monster motors. he had a prosess done. sound waves or somthing on that order. now he swears by it. you can do your whole motor. he did it. fairly chep to. if no one comes up with the prosess i'll look in my old hotrod /super stock books. frank.

 

[CTX-SLPR]

I think you're talking about shaker table stress releiving. It uses low frequency sound waves to essentially season the block without running it. They use it on brand new engine blocks to help stablize the final shapes of the block by vibrating a bolted together engine on the table to help things take the kind of shape that a production motor takes the first 5-10K miles to do, minus the bedding in of bearings and such. No idea on who or how much this would cost but its pretty much worthless on a used engine as the block, heads, and such have already shifted into thier final positions and about all you really have left to worry about is distortion for bolts and such so if your really concerned about ring seal, hone the block with a torque plate on both decks, main caps torqued down, front cover on and if you really want to get percise, a cut down bell housing. But if you ask me, torque plates and main caps should be enough for anything thats not a money making motor.

 

[gnxtc2]

Both my motors have been cryogenically frozen.

Here goes:

I would have the motor dis-assembled before it is treated. When the parts come out of the vat, they are ditry and need to be cleaned. For the price, you can't go wrong. The treatment companies charge by the pound or basket load.

On the first motor, I have all the machine work done before treating. When the block came back, the mains were out and needed to be re-lined honed. So this tells me that cryo does something. I had the block, rod, pistons, rings, and the crank treated. The crank was also nitrided. I installed Fed Mog Super-Duty Alloy Main Bearing (big mistake) and they got totally chewed up at BG. I spun #4 main on this motor while at the track. The motor had no knock and I continued racing it. Usually when you spin #4, the block cracks. My block did not crack. I had to throw this block away because I could not get a reference to line hone the mains. #1 and #4 mains are used for your reference points. The crank was fine, all it needs is a polishing.

The motor I am almost finished building now also was cryo treated. I put the new Eagle crank, block(unmachined), rings, bearings into the liquid nitrogen.

On my Ford Diesel Pickup truck, my front rotors were cryo treated also. Ford trucks warp and crack front rotors easily. So far my are still good.

Anyone that I talked to about cryo treatment never said anything negative about. All they said was "why do you need that"

The treatment company puts the parts into liquid nitrogen which is approximately -300*F. The parts stay in there overnight and they are slowly brought back to ambient temp. Usually the parts are dipped twice a week, Monday/Thursday.

Another good part of cryo, if the part has a crack in it, it will fail while being treated. Example, If the block is cracked and it not picked up by magnaflux, it will crack while being frozen thus saving your time building the motor.

Hope this helps

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

 

[CTX-SLPR]

Good to hear someone with realwold experience with this. Did it alter your crank dimentions? I've got my Eagle crank already balanced and ready to drop in and if its not much more to add to the load I'd probably toss it in with the cam, rocker shaft, lifters, valves, pushrods, and valve springs. I'm still leary about putting aluminum stuff in cryro so I think I'll skip the rocker arms and front cover.

Thanks,

 

[KWIKR 1]

Originally posted by gnxtc2
Both my motors have been cryogenically frozen.

The treatment company puts the parts into liquid nitrogen which is approximately -300*F. The parts stay in there overnight and they are slowly brought back to ambient temp. Usually the parts are dipped twice a week, Monday/Thursday.



Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

that's a different way than the place I deal with does it . nothing is put/dipped into liquid nitrogen . The parts are put into what is called a "chamber" . Liquid Nitrogern gas is released into the chamber in a controlled amount . it takes a total of 3 days to bring the core temperature of the parts to -300*F . the parts are then slowly brought back up to temperature again . The parts are then put into a sort of commercial oven and heat treated to remove any frost that still maybe in the part . I think dipping a part into liquid nitrogen may cause shock or stress to it . But then again , that maybe how other companys are doing it .

 

[buickpower]

dry cryo

From one of the sites listed above, cryoeng.com, they claim to have a completely dry process, and they bring it to -310 very slowly, and back up very slowly. according to them it eliminates thermal shock, also the parts probably wouldn't be dirty either.

 

[CTX-SLPR]

I agree with KWIKR 1 here, the thermal shock would be too great just dipping it in a vat, your heat soak (or escape here) would be too slow on thicker parts and you'd get thermal cracking as your temperature gradient reaches about -200F for a part of any serious thickness. It'd be disasterous on Aluminum that's for sure! Most of the processing I've heard of is some variation of what your reffering to KWIKR, the most percies being dropping it at a rate of 1K a min, dwelling for a few hours then raising at the same rate. I've thought about picking up a set of crapped out sbc rods from the junkyard and attempting the rapid cooling on them then opening them up and looking at the microstructure at work but I'm a bit busy with real work, I'll save it for Christmas time when work slows down again.

This is a gold mine thread, someone ought to make some sort of Hi-Tek idea sticky and catalog ideas like this, beehive springs, and other useful tricks.

 

[KWIKR 1]

Originally posted by KWIKR 1
that's a different way than the place I deal with does it . nothing is put/dipped into liquid nitrogen . The parts are put into what is called a "chamber" . Liquid Nitrogern gas is released into the chamber in a controlled amount . it takes a total of 3 days to bring the core temperature of the parts to -300*F . the parts are then slowly brought back up to temperature again . The parts are then put into a sort of commercial oven and heat treated to remove any frost that still maybe in the part . I think dipping a part into liquid nitrogen may cause shock or stress to it . But then again , that maybe how other companys are doing it .

I guess the process I expalined above is what they call a "dry process" . my parts were not dirty at all when I recieved them back . actually they were cleaner .


Just a side note . I remmeber the owner of the Cryo shop say that they have a contract with the City Of Toronto to do all the brake rotors on their commerial vehicles.

 

[CTX-SLPR]

They'd be a fool not to throughly degrease the parts before cryroing them. I bet what happened is that they hot alkili cleaned (otherwise known as hot tank) them before they were processed. Petroleum and silicone stuff that ends up in engines is potentially harmful to the cryro treatment system and any good company would work pretty hard to keep them out of the chambers.

 

[gnxtc2]

My crank did not change dimensions.

It is a dry treatment. My terminology might have been off. Vat, dip, sorry I meant treatment into the chamber.

The cryo company is not a machine shop, they are treatment company offering a service. I used two different cryo companies and both my stuff came back looking the same, it needed cleaning. Yes, the parts came back looking as if they came out of a hot tank. You have to be careful in putting aluminum parts in a hot tank. There are two different additives used for metal and aluminum. The front cover does not see any stress but the choice is yours. I basically did the short block.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com