Champion Irons Coming - Time to Upgrade Cam

[Terbro]

So now that I've got the Champion Irons on the way, I'm thinking now is the time to upgrade the cam as well. Nick wasn't too sure what was put in. He thought it might have been a 206/206, but it could be stock. I suppose I could have the lift tested, but that'd only be in the outside chance it already has a 212/212. And it really does not feel like it. It's fast, but not 212/212 fast. Point being, I'm confident I need to upgrade the cam.

In reading some of the past threads on the subject, sounds like a 212/212 is the way to go. Just want to confirm. Should I just go with this?: http://www.cottonsperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=EngHTC&cat=35

And I suppose it's also time to buy Champion's ported intake as well, to have that installed when the new heads go on.

And of course I need a 70mm TB as well. Wish I could afford roller rockers...

I'm just going to need someone to loan me $2K.

 

[forcefed3.8's]

You dont need a 70mm tb. 99.9% of the cars here need nothing more than a stocker. There will be little power difference between the 206 and 212 cams until you are pushing into the 9s. Nothing you will be able to feel. If anything a larger cam will have less torque around town. Roller rockers offer adjustability of the lifter preload. There is no performance gain.

 

[Terbro]

Well, here's the problem. I had a GN years ago, with a stock bottom end, with the exception of a 212/208 ATR cam. It had GN1's out of the box, ported intake, a 70mm TB, and an FMIC. That car was pretty damn fast on 19 psi. Did an 11.2 in Denver (~6,200 ft elevation) @ 117 or 119...I forget.

So my theory is, bigger TB and cam = more power with less boost. I think I remember when I upgraded to the 70mm TB, and felt a slight increase in power. It was mostly a street car (regularly spiked it with xylene for a 96 octane brew) and kept it tuned at 19 psi. I know the butt dyno can be bs...could've just been wishful thinking.

But if my theory is right, a bigger cam and TB would work well with the bigger heads now, all to help in easy air flow, allowing "easy" power with less boost, as I mentioned.

And....I had a GN a couple years ago. This thing was weird. It had a stock IC, stock DP, but had a relatively new rebuild, and it came with the cam build sheet (see attached). This thing was much more powerful than it should've been. Never raced it, but I'm telling ya, it had a solid 350 hp on the butt dyno. I've owned 3 stock TR's (two low orig. miles), and this one was significantly more powerful. It doesn't make sense to me, but the only thing I can figure is that damn cam.

I just keep looking at that 4" IC pipe leading up to the TB, then it reduces to the smaller TB inlet diameter.

Anyway, if my theory has any truth to it, I'd rather make the power with less boost, possibly preserving the health of the motor? I don't know...just thinking out loud.

 

[Boost231]

I would check to see what cam is in there before changing it out

What is your et goals?

If the cam is anything over stock it will be enough for your goals I'm sure. Hell the stock cam might be enough.

Also the TB doesn't need to be changed nor intake porting imop.

But then again I don't know your goal..

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

 

[V6sleeper]

You will see a crisper more responsive gas pedal out of a 70mm TB+plenum but no power gain below 550 fwhp.

 

[Terbro]

I would check to see what cam is in there before changing it out

What is your et goals?

If the cam is anything over stock it will be enough for your goals I'm sure. Hell the stock cam might be enough.

Also the TB doesn't need to be changed nor intake porting imop.

But then again I don't know your goal..

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

My goals? As AQ/FAP. (as quick/fast as possible) And that's why that's a great question. If I add something to increase the power, then I'll do it. I do like what V6sleeper said. I will be taking it to the track, but it's mostly a street car, so I like the idea of quick throttle response for on-the-spot mini-blasts. Those are fun, and nice reminders of what's under the hood - an awesome intercooled turbo V6.

Again, with the Champion Irons coming, I'm getting closer to the attached car. That thing had awesome street power. Mild convertor (same as what I have now), so it was very perfectly cruisable. It's occurred to me that if I do the ported intake and 70mm TB and bigger cam, the only difference will be GN1's vs. the Irons. Well, the advantage is...E85 and the potential to turn up the boost (and I've got forged pistons and crank to tolerate a bit more power). So in theory, I could easily compensate for the lack of GN1's with a few more psi boost, and have 425-450 whp (@19 psi) like with that car...I'm I'm hoping with about 22 psi.

And I can't tell you how many times I've kicked myself for selling that one. I actually bought and sold it three times! And when the last guy bought it, and called me a couple weeks later and told me he did an 11.2 at 117 in Denver just the way I had it tuned (on the DR's I had on it, I believe), I told him I'd buy it back again! He said negatory.

But I think maybe I'll just have the new heads and intake installed, and see how it feels. I suspect/hope it'll make a big difference. Plus I still need to continue to dial it in.

Maybe I should do that stuff before thinking about a cam.

 

[gunzandgearz]

Well, here's the problem. I had a GN years ago, with a stock bottom end, with the exception of a 212/208 ATR cam. It had GN1's out of the box, ported intake, a 70mm TB, and an FMIC. That car was pretty damn fast on 19 psi. Did an 11.2 in Denver (~6,200 ft elevation) @ 117 or 119...I forget.

So my theory is, bigger TB and cam = more power with less boost. I think I remember when I upgraded to the 70mm TB, and felt a slight increase in power. It was mostly a street car (regularly spiked it with xylene for a 96 octane brew) and kept it tuned at 19 psi. I know the butt dyno can be bs...could've just been wishful thinking.

But if my theory is right, a bigger cam and TB would work well with the bigger heads now, all to help in easy air flow, allowing "easy" power with less boost, as I mentioned.

And....I had a GN a couple years ago. This thing was weird. It had a stock IC, stock DP, but had a relatively new rebuild, and it came with the cam build sheet (see attached). This thing was much more powerful than it should've been. Never raced it, but I'm telling ya, it had a solid 350 hp on the butt dyno. I've owned 3 stock TR's (two low orig. miles), and this one was significantly more powerful. It doesn't make sense to me, but the only thing I can figure is that damn cam.

I just keep looking at that 4" IC pipe leading up to the TB, then it reduces to the smaller TB inlet diameter.

Anyway, if my theory has any truth to it, I'd rather make the power with less boost, possibly preserving the health of the motor? I don't know...just thinking out loud.

Listen to what forcefed3.8 is telling you, you will be wasting your money on a bigger throttle body,the stock one can take you into 9`s with no problem,spend your money on something else that can make you more power and you will be happier. Good luck on your project.

 

[Whiskeytango]

Well, here's the problem. I had a GN years ago, with a stock bottom end, with the exception of a 212/208 ATR cam. It had GN1's out of the box, ported intake, a 70mm TB, and an FMIC. That car was pretty damn fast on 19 psi. Did an 11.2 in Denver (~6,200 ft elevation) @ 117 or 119...I forget.

So my theory is, bigger TB and cam = more power with less boost. I think I remember when I upgraded to the 70mm TB, and felt a slight increase in power. It was mostly a street car (regularly spiked it with xylene for a 96 octane brew) and kept it tuned at 19 psi. I know the butt dyno can be bs...could've just been wishful thinking.

But if my theory is right, a bigger cam and TB would work well with the bigger heads now, all to help in easy air flow, allowing "easy" power with less boost, as I mentioned.

And....I had a GN a couple years ago. This thing was weird. It had a stock IC, stock DP, but had a relatively new rebuild, and it came with the cam build sheet (see attached). This thing was much more powerful than it should've been. Never raced it, but I'm telling ya, it had a solid 350 hp on the butt dyno. I've owned 3 stock TR's (two low orig. miles), and this one was significantly more powerful. It doesn't make sense to me, but the only thing I can figure is that damn cam.

I just keep looking at that 4" IC pipe leading up to the TB, then it reduces to the smaller TB inlet diameter.

Anyway, if my theory has any truth to it, I'd rather make the power with less boost, possibly preserving the health of the motor? I don't know...just thinking out loud.

Looks like an old Eastern Performance cam card.

 

[Terbro]

Looks like an old Eastern Performance cam card.

So...pardon my ignorance, but that'd be called a "204/214" cam, right?

 

[Whiskeytango]

So...pardon my ignorance, but that'd be called a "204/214" cam, right?

If I remember correctly they had four different grinds.

 

[Terbro]

If I remember correctly they had four different grinds.

At the lower right corner of the card, it says: "duration at .050" cam lift", then has the numbers for the intake (204) and exhaust (214). I was wondering if that's what the typical two numbers people refer to when they describe the cam.

 

[deezdad]

Seems to me you'll be hurting your goal of a responsive street car by the time you match up all your parts around the ported heads. Bigger cam, turbo, fmic, converter might work well at the track but at the expense of street ability? I realize times have changed so someone correct me if I'm wrong please..