"Budget Roller" information needed plz

RobinLBuddi

New Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2003
I need to know more about this econo roller fiasco that had happened a while back. When did these cams first come out, and when were the first problems discovered? Also, after the first problems were discovered, and then brought to Comp Cams attention, how long did they continue selling them? What all steps to were taken to get the problems resolved? Did Comp Cams make any attempt to cure? Did anyone ever take any legal action? Small claims? If so, what happened? Please let me know. I would very much appreciate any/all information about this.

Thanks!!!
Robin
 
You can search the topics to read all the old posts on this (there is a Search button up at the top right).

You can also search for the new thread on the New roller cams from Comp. Neat and promising stuff.
 
Scott - Thanks for the response. Yes, I have searched the subject, however, it is still unclear if anyone had ever taken the matter through small claims court, or used other legal means to resolve. Or did Comp Cams ever do anything to fix the problems, damages, etc.?

Much appreciated!

Thanks!!
Robin
 
i think the majority of the threads were lost in "the big crash".

you might go to turbobuicks.com and gnttype.org and search the archives.

i don't think anyone ever got anything out of comp or the vendors in question...
 
Originally posted by WFO
i think the majority of the threads were lost in "the big crash".

you might go to turbobuicks.com and gnttype.org and search the archives.

i don't think anyone ever got anything out of comp or the vendors in question...

I agree.. I never heard anything ever coming of it. It may have been swept under the rug. As mentioned www.turbobuicks.com should have good archives and there may be people that know more about what happened.

Good Luck!
ks:cool:
 
At the risk of stirring things up (I really don't want to resurrect this issue, it's been hashed out enough already!), and solely for Robin's education, this is what I remember:

- As I remember, they first went on sale... mid-late 1999 maybe? I bought mine at the Nats in the summer of 2000.
- Reports of failures started trickling in about... early 2001? I pulled mine summer 2001 after the hubbub had been going on a while.
- Still not sure how many out and out failures happened. Mine wasn't having any problems, though I could see where a problem might develop, and that could have been my imagination since I was looking so hard.
- Blame never really settled firmly on any one party that I recall. Comp wasn't selling these to the public (again that I remember), just to a couple of vendors. Comps position was that the vendors didn't tell them this was being sold to the public, and so it wasn't their fault that there was a problem. They said they thought these cams were just for developmental purposes, a use for which the metallurgy was just fine. The vendors on the other hand said Comp knew they were selling these to the public (after all, why would they be ordering large numbers of the exact same grind for developmental purposes?), and had been assured that they were suitable for everyday use. Since the blame couldn't be firmly affixed, no one could be forced to make things "right". For a long time one of the vendors stance was that despite all the internet buzz, they had only heard from 1 or 2 people that they had had a problem. So for a while they saw it as a non-issue, that everyone was losing their heads over the bad luck that one or two people had had. In the end, they attempted to mollify people by offering a discount on a new cam.
- I have no idea when the cams stopped being sold
- I never heard of anyone going to court over it. There was a lot of grumbling though.

Hope that helps

John
 
I've never seen racing enigne parts warranty, expressed or implied.
It's a win some lose some deal.
Yes, I had one fail.

From what I read it was the syn oil guys that had the worse problems, but that was ignored. I ran Valvoline 50W racing and at almost 10K miles, just had a noticeable of wear, so I yanked it.

I only menition it since if the test car(s) had been used in a similiar manner to mine, the problem might have escaped detection, until exposed to conditions other then the test cars.

Bad deal, all the way around. I still fail to see where anyone is liable. But, that's just my 2 cents worth.

Law suits just make the lawyers and expert witnesses rich. In this community it would just cripple what few vendors we have.
I would imagine since these cams weren't EPA certified, that the assumption would have to be they were for off-road use only, and if they'd even done 5K miles of testing then an expert witness would say that's an extremely long life for an off-road use only cam. Or so the agruement could be made.

<Not to be used without adult supervision>
 
Funny to me how the "big crash" happened about the same time as the hint of law suits surfacedned I had (2) fail and had long talks to Comp and Precision about it. Comp maintained that they (Comp) told the guys at Precision that the econo roller was a bad idea. Precision said OKed the design...big case of CYA on both parts. I agree that there is no warranty on race parts, but this goes further to faulty design/product, two totally different issues. I had the mains and cam bearing wiped with the first bad cam. I was told there was a bad batch that the hardening process did not take, and was assumed the second would be the best thing since sliced bread. After the second was wiped, Precision said it was a bad install, not enough sping pressure, too much spring pressure (funny because they supplied the springs in the kit) and finally the engine was over reved. I personally know 5 people with the same experience. Precision maintained that there were just a few failure and ask to those affected to email them, to which nothing was done, at least as far as I was concerned.....seems like they offered a $130 toward the purchase of a billet roller.
 
Originally posted by KIDDBOOST
I agree that there is no warranty on race parts, but this goes further to faulty design/product, two totally different issues.

And this is the logic that lawyers get rich on.
No warranty, means *they* aren't going to reimbuse you for any problems.

There were several vendors that offered them, for several vendors to offer them, and them all to fail, would seem to imply they were all taken in by the situation. Again, if they had no failures in their test vehicles, then they thought they were doing the right thing. For whatever reason(s) it didn't pan out, it didn't pan out. Did you call Comp Cams before the failures?. If it was after some failures, what would you expect them to say?. They as much as the vendors fell victim to the whole thing.

Well, I for one, am just going to move on.
 
Thanks for all the responses!! I really do appreciate it.

Well, as far as no race enigne parts warrantys, expressed or implied. My case is a little bit different than most I have heard.

A well known parts vendor had extended me an Expressed Warranty - that they were selling me a hydraulic roller camshaft. They violated this by instead sending me a hydraulic flat tappet camshaft. This means that I am entitled to either a hydraulic roller camshaft, or my money. However, any other limiting warranties (we are not responsible for damage incurred by our hyd roller camshaft. . . .) are also void, as they never sold me a roller camshaft, they sold me a flat tappet camshaft . Even if their written warranty is generalized (PRODUCT, instead of specifically a roller camshaft), the invoice/receipt that I have, as well as the telephone conversations and past e-mail records, all of which state that it is a hydraulic roller camshaft they had sold me, and as this is the "product" that they refer to, if it is not a roller camshaft, the warranties simply do not apply. Therefore, I may be entitled to full compensation for all damage incurred to my engine, because the fact I am not a professional engine builder is moot - they'd never sold me the right parts, so there was no possible way to install them correctly. Therefore, they could not be installed incorrectly, either.

I had ordered my cam over the phone having never seen a catalog. First, I'd e-mailed them all of my engine specs and information (this motor was a stock hyd roller motor, originally), they replied telling me to call for more information. After talking with the general manager/half owner on the phone for about 45 minutes, he had strongly suggested a set of aluminum pistons and a mild performance hyd roller camshaft. After talking about it more and more, I finally had decided to go with his recommendation, I figured he knew his **** since he's in that line of buisiness, besides that he was the general manager/half owner (...if I only had known then, what I know now)

There is a lot more to my story, however, I'm going through small claims court so I will have to decline on some of the more recent happenings, latest information I have obtained, and detailed specifics. I will say that I feel that I am fully covered by the Uniform Commercial Code (read below):

**Uniform Commercial Code - Article II, The Sales of Goods Act**

When a seller sells goods in the course of a business, and the buyer, expressly or by implication, makes well known to the seller of the intended use of the goods, or particular purpose for which the goods are being bought, there is an implied condition that the goods supplied under the contract are of a satisfactory quality, and reasonably fit for that purpose. The Uniform Commercial Code - Sale of Goods Act is applicable; If a particular purpose is made known so as to show reliance on the seller's skill and judgement, there is an implied term that goods supplied under the contract are reasonably fit for that purpose. The Sales of Goods Act also provides for an implied warranty that the goods be merchantable, and an implied warranty that goods be fit for the intended purpose where the seller had a reason to know of any particular purpose for which the goods were to be used.
____________________________________________________

Since the time of purchase, I looked up their record at the Better Buisiness Bureau to find that they have been reported 4 times in the last 12 months, and for very similar reasons to my case. I'm completely disgusted by this whole ordeal.

Thanks!
 
My advice: Trot yourself down to the local courthouse, pay your $15-20 and file a small claims suit. You don't need a laywer, the vendor will be served the notice to appear and you will be given an opportunity to discuss the situation with a judge. He/She will make a decision based on the facts you present.

Make sure you have your facts well documented and can explain the situation so ANYBODY can understand, and you will prevail. I'll bet the vendor will resolve the issue before you see any judge!!

just my humble opinion.

DR
 
turbodave231 - That is exactly what I have done, however, it was much more $pendy than $20, I had to pay $67 to file, simply because the vendor is out-of-state, but since it was sent C.O.D. by mail order, the actual sale was considered to have been made at my door step when I handed the money order to the Fed Ex guy. I have all my facts very well organized, and several pertinent statements from many reputable, well known camshaft mfg's, all of which fully support my arguement.

I really don't like the idea of taking someone to court, but they have left me no alternative, as they've made no effort to resolve the issue, and were very rude on the phone. This is the first time I've ever had to do such a thing. I can't just brush it under the rug, primarily because I know that I am right and they were wrong for what they did.

Thanks for the great responses, it is much appreciated.

Thanks a million!!
Robin
 
If you used hydralic rollers on a flat tappet cam, how did you get it to run?.

It would have had about the shortest durations imaginable.
I'd be real interested in seeing what the cam timing would be, on such a mismatch.

How long were you able to even drive it?.
 
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