Boost creeps up to 10 lbs slowly (alot of lag) w/ Thrasher 92 chip

[TurBo BiRd]

I have alot of turbo lag and alot less power than I used to. I used to be running around 17 psi and now it hits 11 max. I thought I had a really bad exhaust leak. But I brought it to an exhaust shop and they couldnt find one. It also blows alot of blue smoke at high rpm's. My engine mods include all forged internals, cam, ported and polished heads, ported intake manifold, borla exhaust, full intake, Thrasher 92 octane chip for stock injectors, and I barely pulled away from my friends jetta (vr6 swap) that pulls mid 14's. Since TTA's run low 14's stock, something is obviously very wrong. Maybe if someone could direct to a perfoemance shop in Phoenix, AZ, that would help me out alot more.

Could it be a bad turbo? What should I look for on or in my turbo to tell if it is bad?

Thanks in advance, Bobby.

 

[scottyb]

Are you sure your wastegate hoses are routed correctly? Wastegate seated?

All you did was change the chip and boost tanked?

 

[TurBo BiRd]

The chip has been in since last summer. I'm not sure about the wastegate hoses. There is a line running from the wastegate to the turbo. I'll have to check on the wastegate being seated though. It should be seated fine though.

 

[tminer]

Nick Micale
3334 W. Marconi Ave
Phoenix, AZ 85053
602-866-9908

 

[scottyb]

There's your problem. If you run a single hose direct from turbo to actuator, then you get 10lbs.

I'm confused now. You said you used to run 17lbs? Did you change the hoses at some time? What happened to the "y" connector and the solenoid?

 

[TurBo BiRd]

I dont really know how the vacuum hooks upfor the wastegate. All the vacuum on this car was a mess when I first got it. So it's probably wrong. I saw last week on ebay one of the factory t pipes and noticed I didnt have one. The wastegate solenoid is on the driver's side valvecover, right? I have one line running into that and there is an outlet that has nothing hooked up to it. Is that what I run to the T pipe?

Thanks, Bobby.

PS Is that the address fo TA Performance?

 

[scottyb]

There are 3 hoses and a "y"connector.

One goes from the solenoid to the "bottom" of the "y".
One goes from the "top" of the "y" to the turbo.
Last goes from the "angle" of the "y" to the actuator.

This "y" cannot be replaced by a simple "t" connector. There is an oriface in one of the legs that regulates the airflow to help keep the spool smooth and quick without spike.

Hookup like this:

actuator....turbo
..............y.......
.........solenoid

If you don't have the "y", check with some of the vendors you see here.

Also, the solenoid will have one open port. It is a vent. If you "cap" this vent, then you get 10lbs boost. Makes for quick insurance if someone else must drive your car.

 

[TurBo BiRd]

Guess I'm gonna have to get all the hoses and such.

If anyone has a set that they want to get rid of, let me know.

Thanks, Bobby.

 

[scottyb]

You can also put in a grainger (pressure relief) valve. I did mine last weekend and I am happy with it. Needs a little more tweaking, but otherwise better than the way I had the wastegate cranked down with too much tension.

 

[TurBo BiRd]

I hooked up the solenoid w/ a "T" just to see if it changed at all and it is doing the same thing as before...Any other ideas?

Thanks, Bobby.

 

[Eric Stage I]

If you still have the catalytic converter on there, it could be plugged up.

Eric

 

[TurBo BiRd]

Oh sorry, I should have said I don't have a cat.

Would an exhaust leak where the passenger side head meets the crossover pipe possibly do this?

 

[tta583]

Originally posted by TurBo BiRd
I hooked up the solenoid w/ a "T" just to see if it changed at all and it is doing the same thing as before...Any other ideas?

Thanks, Bobby.

You can not use a standard Vac. "T". The factory"Y" in question has a specific oriface size on one of the brances that controls air flow. Not only do you need the specific part but you need it installed correctly. Looke here:

http://www.89tta.com/ttatech.htm#BoostLow

One of the links has a diagram.

As mentioned earlier most of the vendors offer the part. The last time I looked several had them for about $15 with new vaccume hoses in the correct configuration.

A note on the Thrasher, high boost, and the factory boost solonoid. If you do some searches you can find out how the Thrasher controls boost. To be honest, I forget the details, but in a nut shell you end up with a boost spike that is more noticable at higher levels. If memory serves the Thrasher locks the solenoid open to vent boost and keep it from pushing the actuator (waste gate) open. When the set value in the chip is seen it then closes the solenoid to push more boost the the actuator, thus opening the WG. Due the slow speed of the computer, and how the thrasher works, you have a lag where the system can not cathc up, the boost comes on faster than it can make the decision to stop it. You get a spike. I had about a 4 or 5 pound spike in my car. I (try) to run 19 to 20 psi. A buddy in a closer to stock GN saw a spke as well, just not as bad. To help my case I got rid of the factory solenoid all together and went with a manual boost controller. I still have a little spike but I think I can "tinker" it out with adjustments to the wastegate rod and boost contoller.

Brent

 

[blackbuick87]

Uh, no one has discussed the "lots of blue smoke at high rpms"

Thats bad

Your turbo may be toast. Take the MAF pipe (or hose) off and inspect the wheel. Also you may have to remove the exhaust elbow to check the turbine. See if the wheels move in or out, up or down

 

[tta583]

blackbuick87


Good call, I recall, now, thinking the same thing. I got side tracked on the waste gate thing. I wanted to ask the milage of the car. Abused by the last owner? You did mention the vac. hoses were a mess so I would guess something has gone on.

Brent

 

[TurBo BiRd]

Oh this car was completely, ridiculously abused before i had it. I bought the car thinking I was getting an insane deal. I went for a ride and it didn't have any problems. It had DFI, Apex-I Boost Controller and Avc-R but he wanted more money that I couldn't afford at the time. So I bought it minus all of the controls for $3000. I got it almost home before the ECM killed the engine due to no oil pressure. Long story short, he spun a Main Bearing, covered up the noise w/ axle grease, and almost roasted the forged crank. The place the rebuilt it saved it though. I get it back and am playing around w/ some **** and have the up-pipe of and look underneath and lo and behold...NOS NOZZLE! Then I found a NOS solenoid in the hatch a few weeks later. Bastard destroyed the engine. Then when I had it back for a few weeks the tranny went out. This thing was beat to hell. I have been told it has a Turbonetics Stage 2 on it. I'm gonna venture outside to check the inlet side of the turbo in a few minutes and I'll get back to you guys.


Thanks, Bobby.

 

[TurBo BiRd]

The turbo looks fine to me. Smallest amount of movement up, down, left, and right, no scarring on the housing, spins freely,and no shavings anywhere.


--Bobby

 

[soonergn]

The turbo sounds ok, then. A small amount of play up and down is ok but should have no play in and out. The seals could still be bad and causing the smoke but probably won't cause boost building problems. It sounds to me more like misrouted vacuum lines and lack of the correct factory "y" piece to me. Also, you mentioned you thought the boost solonoid was on the driver side valve cover but that is the EGR solonoid. The wastegate solonoid is on the passenger side valve cover. If you are connecting wastegate lines to the EGR solonoid then you have a real mess to undo.

 

[blackbuick87]

Take the car to Nick and TA perf and get it fixed right. He's one of the best

 

[TurBo BiRd]

The Egr solenoid isn't on my valve cover but on the intake manifold. There isn't anything on the passenger side valve cover. This is a TTA engine, I don't know if they have them in different places but it is the wastegate solenois that is hooked up now.

I think I'm gonna bring it to TA maybe this weekend if I have time.

If anyone else can think of what it could be, feel free to continue posting your ideas.

Thanks alot for your help, Bobby.