BE Cool Radiator Upgrade - Clearance problems

[BoyWonder]

A BeCool Radiator was installed prior to my purchase of my WE4.

I was blasting and repainting my radiator hold down as just a general detail / touch up this weekend.
Obviously removed the hold down, but did not pay much attention to how it came off.

So all is good, the hold down looks factory fresh and now (of course) - the problem:

The passenger side of the radiator is ultra tight or to put it another way, is pressed up (too tightly) against the A/C condenser heat exchanger.
It makes having to really force the radiator against the A/C condenser, and I can barely get the hold down bolts started.
I can do it, but I'm not at all comfortable with the geometry of what is going on here.
While I realize the hold down doesn't neccesarily have to be a drop down and finger tight the bolts, and things can be a little wiggle snug - it would be my preference.
I don't like forcing or cobbling things, especially where there is non-insulated rubbing likely to occur.

The problem as I see it seems to be that the BeCool incorporates a transmission cooler.
So far - so good.
The conections from the trans to the BeCool are via hard lines.
Ok so far.

The problem is the connection to the BeCool is via a 90 degree 1/4" N.P.T male/female fitting

This fitting collides with the existing little bracket that holds the low and high pressure A/C lines in place.

Also notice that if you compress all this, you're not only pressing against the bracket in a very undesirable way, but ultimately, you're dangerously close to putting stress on the tubes coming out of the A/C condenser.
(See picture for detail)

Also, I notice the side tanks on the BeCool are considerably wider than the NOS radiator.
This in theory is good, but it also contributes to this thickened geometry, making that fitting clearance non-existant.

I can not move the A/C condenser further toward the grill, as it fastens to the core support in a hard stop way.
It is as far forward as it will go.

The (top of the ) BeCool radiator could be (slightly) closer to the engine, but then the bolt holes on the factory hold down bracket will not line up.
There is no problem on the right (driver's) side with the right most 2 or three mounting bolts.
It gets progressively worse towards the passenger side, where the interference is occuring.

Slotting (hacking) is an option, but the holes are slotted East / West already, and there is not alot of meat to slot them in North / South direction.
(See picture for bolt hold alignment)
And if you'll notice, I am at least 1/4" to 3/8" off on my alignment, and that is with the radiator pressed super tightly against that problem bracket.
I need at least 1/2" more to feel comfortable with the finished product.
In other words, I don't want to have that radiator's trans fitting pressed super tight against that bracket and rub, rub, rub - so I need 1/4" to align the holes and 1/4" clearance space between the fitting and the bracket

I'll call BeCool in the morning and run this by them if no one has experience or suggestions for this,

Or is the magic solution an aftermarket radiator hold down that would allow the mounting holes to be either A) Custom located or B) Slotted properly allowing the radiator to be slightly engine-ward and providing a safe clearance between the trans cooler fitting elbow and the A/C condenser?

Soooo....
Anyone?

 

[BoyWonder]

Or CLEARANCE not clearnace!
These fat fingers..little keys

 

[BoyWonder]

Well, I called BeCool today and got the big ole "shoulder shrug" and "well..you'll just have to modify - whatever".
BeCool say "well our radiator is thicker than stock"...yeah no kidding - I see that.
What tipped me off was the fact that it doesn't fit and it rubs on my bracket.

There seems to be unanimous opinion about making sure the radiator sits down in properly, and to perhaps clearance the saddle rubber isolators on top - in order to get proper geometry for the hold down plate to sit flat - but not a single comment about the trans cooler fitting hitting the bracket.
Surely someone must be running BeCool and have similar issue.

I did try to order one of the Polished Stainless hold down plates engraved with "WE4" from Brian for $124
It looks like it has a little more meat for me to slot north/south.
And I figure if I'm going to modify and slot something, I'll do it to a non-stock piece.

Unless anyone..has a better idea? Anyone? Anyone?

 

[turbot3.8]

Well I finally got my Becool radiator with dual spal fans setup, that I bought here from another board member about two months ago installed over the weekend.

Yes there is very limited clearance on the trans cooler side of it, so we choose to just installed it using an external trans cooler but did use the internal oil cooler.

And the top radiator hold down plate does sit a bit high, but does not interfere with hood clearance.

Overall it's quite a beast of a radiator, I'm really happy with it. I'm sure come next summer all my overheating issues will be over and gone.

 

[Reggie West]

Ive had one for 12 years in my car. It will run nice and cool for you. You will like it.

 

[HouTX87]

I love my Alradco radiator. No hacking. Looks stock and fits perfect.

 

[Red C5]

I love my Alradco radiator. No hacking. Looks stock and fits perfect.

Thank you for the good words and thank you for your business.

 

[jess70502]

I have the exact problem. I bought my car last winter with a Be Cool radiator already installed. The radiator top plate was crappy looking so I changed it with a stainless unit, only to find out everything doesn't go together as well it came off spent hours trying to figure out how everything goes back together. Finally ended up modifying the stainless top plate. Also installed a dual spal fan setup and living in Vegas in the summer with a front mount intercooler it was still getting over 230 degrees. I'm still bitter about this because you would think that Be Cool is one of the best out there and the results Im getting are terrible. So just so you know your not alone, I feel your pain.

 

[BoyWonder]

Well - I suppose that I too could have eliminated the Trans Cooler function part of the BeCool to eliminate the clearance problem and then gone with an external Trans Cooler.
However, two things:
1 - Why eliminate that function unless it is absolutely neccesary
2- I'd have to buy the Front Mount Cooler - more time and delay
3 - I'm not sure I'm real tickled with the way the Trans Coolers mount in front of the radiator (with those tie-wrap like things that punch thru the spaces between the radiator fins)

So, I decided to take the path of (more) resistance and solve the BeCool clearnace problem.
And while I was at it; closely examine the whole rubber isolator, top plate fitment issue in great detail.

So, what I think I'll do is post on this thread what I did to fix everything.
I'll post seperate posts for a step by step how to.

 

[BoyWonder]

#1 - This is where it started:

The A/C condensor bracket was interfeering with the TOP 90 degree elbow trans cooler fitting

I had not yet examined the fitment of the top plate, other than to know that the left side of the top of the radiator was not locating properly, thus making the top plate fitment improper, i nthat the two leftmost bolts would not "really" fit

 

[BoyWonder]

#2 - OK, so what has to happen is the top of the radiator needs to go towards the engine by at least 3/8"

Now, I did not think there was enough "meat" on the stock top plate to slot the holes in a North/South direction.
Note the picture of the stock unit and how the holes were not lining up, as well as what I thought was going to be a lack of material to slot

The solution I felt was either A - An aluminum top plate or B) A stainless steel unit
I looked online at the Champion Aluminum unit, and leaned that direction, since it was aonly drilled for clearance holes - not slotted, and would have given me more latitude to make my modifications without slots already being there. AND - it appeared to have a little more material for me to slot.
However, at about $329, It was also the more expensive of the two.

I looked at the stainless, and felt it had enough material as well.
The stainless unit was already slotted, which is fine, and at the end of the day, it was the price (approx $129), availability - Immediate; and the availability of a custom WE4 that made my decision to go with the stainless unit

Now, after finishing the job, I realized a couple of things:
I looked at the Champion Aluminum unit at the GS Nationals and was surprised at how "thick" it felt.
Not a knock, but after you handle a stock top plate and the stainless unit, you'll definitely know you're holding the billet aluminum unit.
Since it was aluminum, it would however been easier to mill or slot, but I got lucky and it didn't come to that.
I did not stop to think how much more difficult it would have been to slot stainless vs. aluminum
I actually found out when I wiped out one of my carbide cutters when attempting to slot the stainless unit. Ooops! Carbide does nothing to stainless!

However, I bought the really nice stainless unit from Brian at GBodyParts
Actually, I got lucky since Mike at GBody told me they had one with a "WE4" logo on it, and they would dig it out of the trailer for me before heading to Bowling Green.
They shipped it out on Tuesday, and I got in in time to put it on the car on Thursday and head to Bowling Green.
Good people.

So, off we go

 

[BoyWonder]

So in case anyone is wondering - the entire purpose of this excercise was simply to sand blast the nasty looking rust from the OEM original top plate, powder coat it, and mitigate the rust of the core support.
It was not to re-engineer the entire radiator system on my car 24 hours prior to the GS Nationals

So, using my trusty dremel and air sander, I removed all rust from the core support, primed in auto black primer, then shot it with Satin Black.
Not liking the Satin Black finsh, I shot it again with straight Gloss Black

 

[BoyWonder]

Now - to modify the new stainless top plate

Haha...you wish

No, I think we shall dry fit this first and see what's what.
I'll tell you what's what.
Those stock, OEM rubber isolators do NOT actually fit correctly ony the BeCool rectangular blocks on top of the radiator
It's not a horrible fit, but it's not exactly right if you look real closely.

Why?
2 Reasons:
1 - The rectangular bloack is dimensionally thicker and larger than the stock type radiator - it's different.
2 - The weld to hold this rectangle on to the radiator interferes with the isolator sitting "down" properly on the rectangle

It's not much, but it can add to that top plate fitment problem

So...

 

[BoyWonder]

Now, how to modify this rubber piece?

Ahh..the ole trusty dremel.

I'll just let you see the pictures but I did two modifications

1 - "Squared" out the concave shape inside the isolator, to better match the rectangluar bar
Use the dremel for that, and I actually had the perfect sized cutting bit - See pic

2 - Ground down the ends of the isolator so that they don't interfere with the welds on the end of the rectangluar bars on top of the BeCool
Just use the ole grinder, by hand, lightly working the rubber and keeping it sqaure against the wheel - See pic

 

[BoyWonder]

** Fitting the isolators to the rectangular blocks **

Fit the isolators onto the rectangular blocks

Keep nibbling away material until you are satisfied they sit down squarely and do not interfere on the welds

Be sure you orient the little rubber nib toward the front so that you are working the isolator correctly

 

[BoyWonder]

** Extra Step **

Not universal is the way my dual fan setup was installed

This looks to be one of those Chrysler Sebring Dual Fan set ups
It installs by bolting to 4 Aluminum U-shaped brackets that basically hang over the top and bottom of the radiator.
(see pic) (They have the round holes in them on top of the radiator)

My problem was:
I noticed the left most U-Bracket was pushed tightly against the left most rectangular block.
Why?
Oh - the entire dual fan setup was shifted too far left.
Again - why?
Ahhh..I see.
The stock (Chrysler?) setup has 4 plastic "ears" for mounting in its original application.
The drivers side lower tab was interfering or hitting against the driver's side front frame horn/rail.

So, again... out comes the air powered mini saw.
Since I did not have the time nor the enthusiasm to remove the entire fan and cut it on the bench.
I first removed the cold air intake and the MAF sensor for elbow room.
Then I managed to slide the mini saw down in the area to be cut.
Carefully nibble, nibble, cut cut, and finally lop the lower mounting "ear" off.
Viola'!

The fan setup now slid right and centered proeprly on the radiator.
Wheeeee!

 

[BoyWonder]

** Mark for where the holes should be in the new stainless top plate ***

Yeah - I know - this is what I wanted to do 4 hours ago.

First, I placed some strip of masking tape to align with where the mounting holes are on the core support.
But place them so they aren't covered by the hold down plate.
now, with a pencil (or pen) mark the lines on the tape where the mounting holes on the core support are
This will allow you to transpose these locations to the stainless top plate when you place it on for fitting.

Dry fit the hold down plate and carefully mark where you "think" the holes are.
Needs a little hand-eye coordination, striaght edge, or both.
I used the former.

Use a pencil to mark where the new holes should be in the stainless top plate

Sorry - forgot to take pictures of this step
Please use your imagination

 

[BoyWonder]

** Modify the new stainless top plate ***

Using the pencil marks on the new stainless top plate - I thought
Hmm..it looks close enough I might just drill new holes.

At first I tried slotting with a carbide tool.
No way!
Now, I had no other cutting tools that might slot the stainless, so I said I'd just go for it, and drill new holes rather than slotting.

A nice spring loaded center punch, a good drill, three different sized drill bits, and some liberal use of cutting oil to finally get to the proper clearance for a 6mm bolt

The pics look evil, but don't rush to judgement.
The final product looks fine.
And it was almost better or easier than slotting and hacking that close to the existing slots.
Too difficult.
And - I got lucky by landing the holes pretty much exactly where they needed to be

 

[BoyWonder]

** Mounting the top plate **

Now, remember this excercise was to dress up the core support and top plate to eliminate the rust and crappy looking front door to my engine bay.

So I thought...
Do I really want this new top plate to rub and scratch the nearly painted core support and foster future rust?

So - I decided to install some rubber washers under the top plate.
Basically, they are approx 3/8" I.D. or enough to clearance the 6mm hold down bolts
These are available at any good True Value, (Howard Brothers True Value in Duluth, GA is my home away from home - awesome selection!) or Home Despot has them in certain I.D. sizes.
The way I looked at it was that this top plate is to keep the radiator held down, but it's not like it's holding the axle or anything, so a little rubber washer wouldn't affect any structural integrity.

At first I thought I'd lay them over the holes and then hope and try to get all five of the bolts started without slipping a washer.
Then I said - naw - a little dab of hot glue to keep the rubber washers in place while attaching the top plate and getting the bolts started

 

[BoyWonder]

** The fasteners **

Ithought the top plate was supposed to come with new stainless hardware - but..Brian?

Anyhow - No problem.
To the stainless and chrome fastener bin (or Howard Brothers) I go.

Now, did I really want to have a washer spin on my new stainelss top plate?
No I say.

So, in addition to the 6mm x 20 bolts, plus the chrome washers, I also used some small, fiber washers.
These are pretty stiff and don't distort much.
You could almost use them as THE washer.
These accomplished not only the function of not scratching the new stainless top ;plate, but since they area little oversized, they covered nicely the elongated holes I had drilled.