batery keeps dying while driving?? WTF, ANY1?

[87 Pete]

Originally posted by Steve Wood
One comment....John Spina showed some pictures once of the charge bulb in the dash. Apparently some of the bulbs have a resistor built into the base of the bulb holder in case that the bulb burned out.

I guess we should have started by putting a meter on the connector to see if it had voltage on it when the key was on. One lead to the connector terminal and the other to ground (alternator case)

Steve,

FWIW, while I had my cluster out last month to fix my "no charge" problem (see earlier post), I noticed that the Volts bulb, does indeed have a tiny resistor in the back of it. You can only see it if you take out the cluster though.

I also noticed that my extra NA regal cluster did not have a resistor on that bulb, so I guess it's just turbo specific.

As for 1985 GN's problems, I agree with looking at the basics. Also, if the dash bulb isn't lighting at key-on, and the bulb isn't burned out, you will have a charging problem.

I personally found the charging system trouble-shooting flow-chart in the '87 Buick electrical manual, very helpful and easy to use. I'm certainly not an electrical expert, but it helped me fix my problem fast.

Pete

 

[1985GN]

well i have done the basics from what i have seen. should i just see if i can take the alternator back and order up a one wire alternator or would that not solve this?? grrrrr im ripping my hair out.

 

[Steve Wood]

Pete, I have not looked at all my cars but, at least one does not have the resistor. Noticed that the other day in the process of swapping dashes...

1985Gn....go back to the original wire from the dash. Does ithave voltage on it when you turn the key to the on position?

 

[1985GN]

when you say original wire i spliced the brown wire going into the alterantor pigtail. should i just tie it back into the original wire and go see what i get?

 

[1985GN]

ok i tested the orignaly brown wire that was going to hte back of thr alternator. with the key on it had power not a ton but it had power. the light did not light up as bright as it did to a wire hooked up directly to a 12volt source. what does this mean?

 

[Steve Wood]

okay, went to the book: LOL

Disconnect the brown wire from the alternator. With the key turned on, connect a jumper from the brown wire to ground. Does the light in the dash come on when you do this? If it does, it would appear the alternator is bad. If it does not, it would appear the problem is in the brown wire, the bulb, or the printed circuit in the dash...

I still don't understand why it will not charge when you put voltage to the alternator....did you touch the same terminal that the brown wire hooks up to?

If you look down into the alternator where the plug goes, you will see four pins. the second one from the passenger side is the one that connects to "L" on the plug which is the one that the brown wire goes to.

I just went out and pulled the connector off one of my cars...turned the key on and had no volt lite burning on the dash. Then I ran a piece of wire from the terminal in the plug that the brown wire goes to and shorted it to the alternator case, the volt lite came on. Try that.

 

[1985GN]

ok ill go try that. as for what did before i hooked a 12 volt charged wire into hte brown wire after i cut it. so i cant see how it would be in hte wrong spot but im gonna check it out. il let you know in a while.

 

[Steve Wood]

Originally posted by 1985GN
ok i tested the orignaly brown wire that was going to hte back of thr alternator. with the key on it had power not a ton but it had power. the light did not light up as bright as it did to a wire hooked up directly to a 12volt source. what does this mean?

whoa, I am really confused....are you saying your dash lite came on?

which way are you applying the voltage. If you disconnect the original brown wire, or cut it into....the power that you add goes to the alternator to the second pin from the passenger side as I think I said above. The dash light should not be on at all then.

If you ground the end that runs back to the dash the light should come on and be bright.

You should not be adding power to the brown wire back to the dash.

 

[1985GN]

ok update. i hooked the brown original wire back up to the pigtail like it was stock. i unhooked it from the alternator stuck a test light in threre and grounded the test light. with the key on hte volt light came on very dim but it came on. whrere do i go from here is it the alternator even though they tested it out to be good. hmmmmmm

 

[Steve Wood]

Okay, now..with the original wire reconnected..do not use a test light...run a piece of wire from the terminal on the plug that the brown wire is molded into to ground. In other words, we are simply grounding out the the brown wire. Now turn the key on to run....does the dash lite come on that says Volts?

Also while you are at it...look down into the plug socket on the alternator...there should be four pins sticking up that go into the plug on the brown wire. Are there four?

 

[1985GN]

ok i went out there. the brown wire is hooked up the way it was before all this. no splices no nothing. i unhooked the pigtail stuck a piece of wire into hte end that hte brown wire comes into and then grounded the wire. went in the car turned the key and bam the volt light lights up as bright as can be, what now im getting a little excited that i am close to it....=)

 

[Steve Wood]

According to the book, that means the alternator is no good.

Now, look down into the pocket on the alternator that the brown wire plug, plugs into. Use a flashlight, do you see four pins sticking up?

 

[1985GN]

yeah there are 4 pins the farthest one on the drivers side the pic is a little bigger then the others. hmmmmm

 

[Steve Wood]

Yes, that is right. Now, on your plug that the brown wire is going into the back, there should be some letters on the side of the plug and the brown wire is going into the next to the last one (the third pin from the drivers side....that is pin L according to the letters on the side...L for lite I guess. When the the regulator senses the voltage from the dash in that third pin it should start charging when the engine cranks.

I thought maybe you had a bad connection in the plug from the brown wire to the terminal. Sounds like it is okay since the bulb came on.

I am wondering if they are applying voltage to pin L or to Pin F when they tested the alternator. I am not sure, but If I understood John Spina correctly, you should be able to apply 12 volts directly to that pin which is the second one from the DS and make it charge also. I just don't want to blow out your regulator. I am convinced the alternator is not working correctly, tho. Seems to be a problem in it rather than the wiring. we now know the wiring is okay. Or so it seems according to the shop manual. Maybe you could call john at Caspers and ask him if it is okay to apply voltage to Pin F or go down to the auto store and look at their plug to see if they are using pin F or pin L.....??

 

[1985GN]

hmmm i think i will go back to the store that charged it and look at the connection htey used. i will see if it looks liek the right one. if they arent applying to power to the right one then what did they appy it to? hmmmm im getting confused and frustrated.....lol

 

[Steve Wood]

On the TBS.com, we were discussing this issue back in January. I understood one of John Spina's post to indicate that Pin F (field, I guess) which is the one next to L could take a full 12 volts. I extrapolated it to mean that that pin could also be used to start the charging process. Since I inferred that, I don't want you to try it without checking with someone smarter than me. If the auto place is connecting to this pin thru the plug, that might explain why it works for them, tho...but not for you. It could have a fault in the regulator going thru the pin that we connect to.

 

[1985GN]

so what should i do to make srue the test is the right one for it?? should i look at the clip or something or tel them something? im at a loss here to make sure its tested right.

 

[1985GN]

ok here is another update. i noticed a few posts back you said that the l pin was the 3rd one in on mine it is the second one in. both the l on the plug and the l on the light line up though. anyway i took the alternator to a alternator shop only and they tested it out good even after i explained the prob. i then returned that and bought one off of them and installed it. the l pins line up and everything but again the battery is dying. the light does not come on when i turn the key either, but yet if i ground the light wire it comes on. what gives im almost to my last nerve with this car. thanks

 

[1985GN]

im realy debating on getting a one wire alternator to solve all of this. is there any good ones out there, wehre can i get one fro my car? is this a good idea? im at witts end so ill take this one back as well and order a one wire alternator. thanks

 

[Steve Wood]

I believe I said from the passenger side..I may have made a mistake?

Anyway...The plug that is molded on to the brown wire has the following letters marked on it in this order.

S F L P

S goes to the big pin that you noted on the alternator connection to the regulator. S is also closest to the driver's side fender on my car.

The plug is keyed and should only go on in one direction and has a retainer clip that pops over the nose on the back of the plastic regulator housing that forms the socket on the alternator that the plug pops into. The letters face the front of the car and the retaining clip points to the firewall.

The brown wire from the dash is molded into the plug and goes to L. This is the only terminal in the plug that has metal inserts in it. The others are all just holes.

If you count from the drivers side of the plug when holding it as it plugs in. S (the big pin) is 1, F is 2, L is 3, and P is 4. Therefore L goes to the third pin over from the drivers side which is the same thing as the second pin from the passenger side.

If this is the way yours is connected, then we have a paradox.

The brown wire, when shorted out, makes the volt lite burn brightly in the dash. Therefore the charge initialization circuit is good. If this wire is connected to the correct pin as above, the alternator should charge if it is good. Now, the alternator does not charge. Not even when you applied voltage directly to the brown wire. Yet, when the alternator shop tests it, they say it charges fine.

Something does not compute here.

It seems strange to me that the car starts and then soon dies. If you are charging the battery well enuf, it should run a long time before the electrical system uses enuf power to drain the battery down to that level.

If the wire is going to the correct pin above and it is not charging. I have to wonder if the battery is shorting out inside and killing the alternator output.

You should be able to charge the battery completely up and drive it down to the alternator shop and let them explain why it will not charge.

I had a battery a couple of years ago that tested perfectly..it was a new battery. Suddenly, I would have a dead battery, or it would simply stop running. I would jump the battery and it would run fine again until it stopped..maybe 30 minutes later or two days later....I checked everything...finally took the battery back and they gave me a new one and it has worked with no problems ever since. The battery would even work on a load test. I think it had a bad connection between cells or something that came and went. I have a bad opinion of most batteries.