Back in Black, Broke Down Twice Already...

[kTrainHurricane]

Here is a sort of "prequel" to my situation: Bought a GN Today - I'm Back in Black! - TurboBuicks.com
Basically the car died on me one day and I found out it was because the orange ECM wire had a bad connection. While at the shop they found a pin-hole sized puncture in the gas tank and found rust in the tank and lines as well. I had them replace the tank, lines and pump.

Anyway I got my car this evening out of the shop (where it has been for almost a month, which I think is rediculous). The owner called me around 7pm letting me know it was finished, drives perfect, etc. Said he took it around to test it and make sure and everything is fine. I asked him to just hide the key in the wheel well so I could go pick it up (I live about 30-45 mins. away) and he did. It had a new gas tank, fuel lines, Walbro pump, and hotwire kit installed. They also re-did the wiring for the ECM (orange wire that connects to battery) which is what caused the car to shut down on me in the first place.

I get the car from his shop onto the highway (about 5 miles away) and make it two exits down the road. I get on the throttle a little bit to make a pass and as soon as I hit boost (this is the first time I hit boost since getting in the car), the car shuts off and the Service Engine Soon light starts blinking constantly.

I pull over, wait 2 freakin hours for a tow truck, and have it brought back to my house. I plan on having the shop send their tow truck over and bring it back to their shop FREE OF CHARGE, and I also expect them to fix it free of charge. I haven't yet paid my balance (paid for the parts already, but not labor) so if they refuse to fix it at their own cost then I will not pay them and take the car to the local Turbo Buick mechanic, which is where I wanted it in the first place.

Any comments/suggestions you guys can give is appreciated, as always. Specifically, if anyone can tell me what the constant blinking SES light means/what you think the problem could be in relation to the new fuel system that would be great.

 

["Turbo-T"]

Per my Turbo Tweak instructions, it does say in there that if you insert the chip and the SES light flashes rapidly, it could be due to the pins not making contact or the chip being defective.

Not saying that's what your issue is but it's worth a check.

HTH

 

[kTrainHurricane]

Per my Turbo Tweak instructions, it does say in there that if you insert the chip and the SES light flashes rapidly, it could be due to the pins not making contact or the chip being defective.

Not saying that's what your issue is but it's worth a check.

HTH

Just did a little research and am on my way out the door to go check now. I am gonna just pull the chip then pop it back in to see if that helps.

I DO remember my last TR having the chip stuck, literally, to the point where i couldnt remove it without snapping it. Hope i dont have that problem now...

Also read that it could be something with the ECM wire. As said this was the original problem, and the shop cut the original at the brittle/rusted points and ran new wire there. Could they have messed something up in doing this? I dont have enough knowledge to know where to look at or what to look for with the wiring...

 

[TURBOPOWERED68]

one thing may not have anything to do with the other.
the good news is that the computer is putting out a code which gives you a head start or at least a direction.
If the problem was fuel related i don't think that the computer would pick it up (give you a code on it).

My experience: i was driving down the road life was good then i get all kinds of back fires and hesitations and when i checked the Scanmaster it had about 4 codes. i did some research and some checking and found that the Chip came loose from the socket, i then pushed it back in and life has been good since.
Good luck

 

[kTrainHurricane]

one thing may not have anything to do with the other.
the good news is that the computer is putting out a code which gives you a head start or at least a direction.
If the problem was fuel related i don't think that the computer would pick it up (give you a code on it).

My experience: i was driving down the road life was good then i get all kinds of back fires and hesitations and when i checked the Scanmaster it had about 4 codes. i did some research and some checking and found that the Chip came loose from the socket, i then pushed it back in and life has been good since.
Good luck

Went outside about 20 minutes ago to check the chip. In my last TR the chip was visible after removing the plastic piece that holds the computer against the kickpanel - when I removed that plastic off just now, I was presented with a sealed metal box. I assume that the chip is hiding in there, but I did not have the right sized socket to open it up. So, I jiggled the wires that go into the metal box, and "pushed" them into the box just to see where that would get me.

I stick the key in the ignition, to it to "on" and BOOM - no more flashing SES. I did not start the engine as it is very late and the car is parked on the side of my house (which is right next to my neighbor's bedroom window), but hopefully it will start and drive worry-free tomorrow. I will keep you guys posted; thanks for the input!

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Let the drama begin!
Unplug the ecm, and see if the pins are corroded. Could be a water leak at the cowl are is allowing H2O into the area that the ecm is sitting in.....

 

[kTrainHurricane]

Car started up fine today - I drove it around the nighborhood and it was all good, but did not get into boost. I'm going to try and drive it to work and see how she does. Assuming all is well, I will nail it a few times on the way home and see if I get the same results as last night...

 

[salvageV6]

Mebbe somebody put the computer into the plastic holder in the kick panel backwards.

Remove it from the holder and look for the chip cover on the other side. :smile:

The original ECM feed off the battery had a fusible link in it.

Make sure that was replaced properly if they serviced it near the battery or it was left untouched.

 

[kTrainHurricane]

Mebbe somebody put the computer into the plastic holder in the kick panel backwards.

Remove it from the holder and look for the chip cover on the other side. :smile:

The original ECM feed off the battery had a fusible link in it.

Make sure that was replaced properly if they serviced it near the battery or it was left untouched.

Flipped the box around last night and it was completely sealed - there is what seems to be a "blocker plate" over where the chip should be. Still haven't touched it though because:

Car started fine this morning. I drove it around the neighborhood to make sure it was ok and it was. Started driving to work, with the intentions of nailing it a few times on the way home (assuming it made it to work fine) to see if the limp mode had something to do with hitting boost. Anyway I got about 2-3 miles away from my house and the SES light came on - steady on though, not a rapid flash light last night. Then, about 2-3 more miles down the road, the car shut off again.

I took the key out, then put it back in and turned ignition "on" with engine "off" and SES light was once again flashing rapidly. I sat for a few mins., jiggling the wires that go into the ECM box every now and then, and on the 3rd try the light stopped flashing and I was able to drive the car into a nearby parking lot. I waited for a friend to come so he could follow me home, and I drove it back home 5-6 miles with no problems whatsoever!

 

[TurboJim]

Pull the prom cover and pull out/reseat the chip.

Stupid question, there isnt a ribbon cable coming out of the cover right (ala Ultrachip or Prompaq right? Prompaq...now I am dating myself in these cars......)

Could be a cold solder joint in the ECM as well. I remember john Spina I think it was "reworking" the ECM for problems like this where the socket was corroded/worn out.

 

[TurboDave]

Agreed. You need to pull the littlle cover off of the ECM that covers the chip. PUll the chip and re-insert it. It could be something as simple as slight corrosion on the chip pins.

The rapid flashing SES light definately indicates a chip issue.

 

[kTrainHurricane]

My problem with doing that is this: I dont want to mess it up worse than it already is...lol

I am already in for something like $1,000 for this problem with the mechanic. With my luck, I would end up messing the chip up worse, some way, somehow. I have had some people tell me to "be careful about touching metal to it" and "becareful of static because that cant kill the chip" etc. I would rather leave it as the shop gave it to me...that way it is ALL on them.

If you guys think this is the wrong mentality please share by all means...

And also - since the problem keeps going away and coming back as the wires are jiggled, wouldn't that mean it has something to do with those wires and not the chip itself?

 

[TurboJim]

Just pry the chip carrier up easily a little at a time fron each end. If you damage the chip, no bigge, $100 fix, if you damage the ECM or the holder is corroded/worn out, again $150.00. You already gave the shop a G, whats another hunge?

Moving the wires is probably flexing the motherboard. Theres no wire that disconnecting could give you a Prom error (flashing SES). Years ago, I did have the orange wire pull out of the ECM connector giving me an intermittent stall/no start. But that wouldnt give you a flashing SES, and it was because I was pulling the ECM a couple times a day doing my own chips (/me high fives TurboDave)

 

[kTrainHurricane]

Just pry the chip carrier up easily a little at a time fron each end. If you damage the chip, no bigge, $100 fix, if you damage the ECM or the holder is corroded/worn out, again $150.00. You already gave the shop a G, whats another hunge?

Moving the wires is probably flexing the motherboard. Theres no wire that disconnecting could give you a Prom error (flashing SES). Years ago, I did have the orange wire pull out of the ECM connector giving me an intermittent stall/no start. But that wouldnt give you a flashing SES, and it was because I was pulling the ECM a couple times a day doing my own chips (/me high fives TurboDave)

My concern was whether or not the chip was still good. If it is 100% bad and needs replacing, I will have no problem taking it out and buying a new one. BUT if the chip is still good, I'd rather let the SHOP take it out and risk breaking it - that way THEY can pay for the new one...

 

[Danster]

I know your paranoid, but if you can't /won't change your own chip, maybe you should sell the car!

Has to be the easiest thing to do and if you can't do that, well...... Not trying to be a prick but a chip is just too easy to change or unseat and reseat. No need to be paying someone else to do it.

Dannyo

 

[kTrainHurricane]

I know your paranoid, but if you can't /won't change your own chip, maybe you should sell the car!

Has to be the easiest thing to do and if you can't do that, well...... Not trying to be a prick but a chip is just too easy to change or unseat and reseat. No need to be paying someone else to do it.

Dannyo

Its not that I will be paying someone to do it - its the fact that the job was ALREADY paid for so EXPECT them to do it. With my luck the chip will snap while taking it out, plain and simple. My only argument is that i'd rather have the SHOP break the chip or whatever so THEY can paid Eric Marshall $100 for a new one, rather than ME breaking it and having to spend MORE money out of my pocket...

 

[Pronto]

Don't be a wimp. Take the damn thing out and look at it. If you see corrosion or something obviously wrong then your on to something. I wouldn't wait for them to take another month to tell something (right or wrong for that matter) if checking it is a few minutes of your time and nut driver.

 

[kTrainHurricane]

Took the chip out, had no corrosion on it or anything - all pins looked to be perfect. I gave a "blow" into the chip and ECM just to get any dust or whatever off, and plugged it back in. I also noticed that one of the grey "guider" clips that helps hold each of the two wire bundles onto the ECM box was not fastened properly. I took that off and re-applied it the correct way as well.

Drove the car around for 5-10 mins. going up and down all the streets, leaning into boost here and there and mashing it twice...no problems whatsoever. *Fingers crossed* problem may be solved. Thanks again to all who helped; I will keep you updated!

On a side-note I noticed the chip is for alcohol. Numbers were something along the lines of this:
"5.5" - top left corner
"941" (maybe?) - top right corner
"50# Alcohol" - on line under Turbo Tweak logo
"230/210 23-25 PSI" - across the bottom of the sticker
There was also a number "198" (I believe) written somewhere - I think it might have been in between "230/210" and "23-25 PSI"

 

[wb's87]

now dont you feel proud of yourself. dont be so afraid to attempt things on that car. it is the only way to learn.

 

[kTrainHurricane]

now dont you feel proud of yourself. dont be so afraid to attempt things on that car. it is the only way to learn.

yeah, but if the attempt was a failed one (with my luck it usually is) and i did actually break the chip or something then I would be in a world of pist-off most people dont know exist and would want to kill everybody... lol :biggrin: