Anyone else having problems with water in there E85

[TA49-WE4]

Wondering if anyone else is having problems with there E85 having lots of water in it that there are getting from the gas station.

It has happened to me twice now. Once when I was on powertour this year and once when I was heading up to car craft nationals.

I had a wix fuel filter on the car and it is stoping the water like it should. Problem is it also stops my car as it dies on the interstate because the fuel filter is full of water.Trust me its not a fun time. Take the fuel filter off and drain it and im back on the road till it fills up with water again. Then its the same thing again. Drain filter and back on the road I go.

Im going to try this filter now:

www.cantonracingproducts.com - 25-908 - CM -15 GM EFI INLINE FUEL FILTER SHORT 16MM

Talked to them on the phone and they said that it will work with e85 and it does NOT filter water out.

Fit right on the car. However if you are really picky it is bigger than the stock filter and the stock holder really doesn't work that well with it.

I did cut the stock filter open just to see what it looked like and it was clean as it could be.

I was using this in every tank also:
http://www.amazon.com/Marine-Formula-Stabilizer-MARINE-STABIL/dp/B001B0SINY

Just wondering if anyone else has run into this or am I the only lucky one.

 

[TurboBob]

No problems here, but that looks like a mighty nice filter.

Bob

 

[TA49-WE4]

No problems here, but that looks like a mighty nice filter.

Bob

Its a really nice filter. Highest of quality! Its cashy but you do get what you pay for :biggrin: I am impressed with it!

 

[49-blues]

I put a perma cool fuel filter on that has a petcock valve to drain off any water.

 

[TA49-WE4]

I put a perma cool fuel filter on that has a petcock valve to drain off any water.

Does it go in the stock location? Any pictures or a website link?

 

[49-blues]

I'm going to bolt a bracket to the upper trunk floor and attach it to the bracket near the fuel lines behind the rear differential. I maybe able to get some pics this weekend. I think I got it from jegs or summits.

 

[BEATAV8]

No problems here either, but I always buy from the same fuel station.

 

[1outlaw]

I think you may have had a different issue going on. The only way I know to strip water from a high ethanol blend such as E85 or E100 is with zeolite or the mole sieve material used in an ethanol plant- 5 anstrom ceramic beads. This is why all of the filter manufacturers for retail fuel pumps do not offer such a filter for the high volume applications at retail for E85. They do offer such filters for straight gas or ethanol blends up to 15% ethanol--how can they do that but not the high blends like E85??? This is because to "separate" water they need to absorb it and the only way they can do that is once it has phase separated (extreme high water/moderate ethanol). Typically they would absorb it with corn starch polymer powder baked into the filter media. When it plugs- it plugs permanently- you could not drain off water. The other way that was done (usually gravity filters with petcock drain) was to coat the media with a chemical that would sweat down water IN PURE HYDROCARBON- this would not work in an ethanol blend and was only partially effective in a gravity application- fuel pressure would force water thru.

Since the current absorption materials that I am aware of in use would require a phase separation to work- it is extremely unlikely that water is the issue here. Note the phase separation test used to determine ethanol content calls for 50% water added to the sample to positively separate water/ethanol from the gas portion. The standard test for E10 to determine ethanol only requires adding 10% water to the sample to drive a separation- this level would never work for E85- the water will just disaappear so tightly bonded (hydroscopic) that nothing will break the bond except for heating the fuel to a vapor and passing it thru molecular sieves or zeolite in the liquid.

If you truly believe it is a water issue then put some in a graduated cylinder and just do the E10 test (10 ml in 100 ml of test fuel). Shake it and let it sit- if it would separate then perhaps the station you are buying from has a problem with it's tank top openings seals and groundwater/surface water has entered during a storm. If this were the case however- your car would be down on performance/driveability very very noticeably even with a clean filter.

It sometimes is hard to separate truth from sales pitches- filter companies and fuel additive makers are always going to supply a product and the hype to make the sale. Since there are lots of fear in the marine, small engine, and aircraft circles regarding ethanol- you can bet there will be products with claims to satisfy those perceived issues real or not.

To the OP- when you disconnected the filter on the input side, did you perhaps drain it into something where you could see and rust/debris? What makes you feel it was water other than WIX saying it was a "water separating" filter?

I just put a call into a filter maker I trust who has been making water separation type filters for pure hydrocarbon and low ethanol blends for over 35 years just to see if there has been a recent change in materials/tech making what I have said incorrect- if so- I will post as soon as I find out differently.

UPDATE- GOT A CALL BACK AND THERE IS NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN PER THEM

 

[jdpolzin]

I was thinking the same thing. Seems like your about the only one that has had issues. I say stop using the treatment your adding to the fuel. You had problems with a scammer tar like substance on your injector O-rings first, then the issues on the Power Tour, and now again. At the same time, none of us have had any other issues. I'm thinking it's either the additive or your local E85 supply. Something just isnt right, we run long trips consistantly without issues and you've had 3 issues that have put the car out of comission.

 

[TurboK]

I havent had any problems with the E-85 in the Las Vegas area.

 

[TA49-WE4]

I was thinking the same thing. Seems like your about the only one that has had issues. I say stop using the treatment your adding to the fuel. You had problems with a scammer tar like substance on your injector O-rings first, then the issues on the Power Tour, and now again. At the same time, none of us have had any other issues. I'm thinking it's either the additive or your local E85 supply. Something just isnt right, we run long trips consistantly without issues and you've had 3 issues that have put the car out of comission.

Maybe you are on to something here jdpolzin. I never had this problem before until I started using the additive.

I really do think that what ever is clogging up that fuel filter is liquid. No fuel pressure at the rail when the car died. Take fuel filter off the car drain fuel filter and put the same filter back on. Then the car fired right up fuel pressure back just like it should be.

Like I said before I cut the fuel filter open and there is nothing in the filter. I can take a picture if you guys want. I have been asked this before when I was having the black tar problem on my injectors. ( However I am not alone with the black tar problem as the import guys are running into that one )

 

[1outlaw]

I will take your word for the filter being immaculate and still plugging. I had that issue once in E85 and after a lot of frustration I thing we found it. If we oven dried the filter media (which looked good) we found a dust would come off if we thumped the filter media with a finger. We found we had gotten a load of gas (that was used for the 15%) that had small amounts of a very fine rust (like dust) in it- so little we could not see it in the E85 but had a slight cloud in the straight gas. Remember these filters are very fine and sometimes what you cannot see will plug them. Once this is in a tank, it will remain for many many tankfuls.

Like JDPolzin however, I would immediately cease using the additive unless it is the last tankfullof the year IN A OPEN VENTED TANK OR CARB DRAG/CIRCLE TRACK APPLICATION WHERE NO FUEL WILL BE USED FOR ^ MONTHS. I do not think that is your application.

 

[Turbo Rocket]

Its probaly from the E85 eating the inside of your gas tank. ha ha.

 

[1outlaw]

Its probaly from the E85 eating the inside of your gas tank. ha ha.

Nope- this was straight gas in a dedicated gas tank used for blending outside of the tank with ethanol. When I was in the fossil fuel only business (>25 years), it was common to find large rust deposits in the bottom of gas storage tanks. I even had a 15,000 gal 10 year old straight gas tank let go and start leaking in the concrete dike- it turned out to be galvanic corrosion due to inadequate tank grounding and the presence of water (from condensation) in this above ground tank. 15 or so quarter size rust pockets in the tank bottom eating into the steel. Most farm gas tanks also had a lot of loose rust in them so nearly everyone put on water shedding filtration on the outlets. We also kept 5 micron filters on our bulk plants but were the only distribution company in our area to do so- the rest just had 100 micron or coarser screens on their outbound side even though their plants much older and dirtier.

 

[GHawz13]

Was there a water issue right after filling up your tank? A lot of people do not know that the Ethanol blended fuel has a 90day shelf life. It will start separating and becoming water. So if the gas station is not a high volume then there can be an issue of water in the fuel tank or if your car is not run and refueled water can become an issue from the ethanol besides regular condensation build up depending on where you live.

 

[1outlaw]

I would beg to differ on the 90 shelf life in a below ground station tank with the normal pressure vacuum vents. what I would agree with is small quanities in an open vented above ground tank after a long period can be affected.

I have seen E98 stored up to 5 million gallons for 3 months or more without an increase in moisture content (tested prior to shipment per COA requirements)- and that was in large aboveground tanks.