Anyone Chassis Dyno'd their Stage II Car?

[Rob Raymer]

We just got mine together yesterday and started tuning it on the dyno. I'm just wondering what type of #'s most of you are seeing on a Dynojet?

At 25lbs of boost with a T74, we made a best 718rwhp/724rwtq. The A/F was never leaner than 10.75:1 on that pull. And much of the pull was in the 9.7-9.9:1 range. I wanted to tune it conservatively, so that when I got on the street with it, it wouldn't lean out. Oddly enough, on the street it richened up (never leaner than 9.4:1 all the way through Overdrive). EGT hit a high of 1651 on the street in OD at WOT.

I'd also like to use this thread as a plug for Lonnie Diers. If anyone is thinking of doing a serious 200R4 buildup, Lonnie is your man. I have had several 200's built over the years, and never had the kind of great service I received from Lonnie. To make a long story short, he built me tranny, and delivered it 120 miles away to me. It had an improperly machined 4340 input shaft (not his fault), which broke immediately after I installed it. I called Lonnie and he rushed back to my shop (again, 120 miles one direction) to pick the tranny back up. He took it back, fixed it, and delivered to me again within 2 days. And then, even helped install it! (I also want to thank Brad Lay, Kip Asplund and Davey Stinson for their help)

I just don't want that customer service to go unnoticed. This was my first dealing with Lonnie, and I couldn't be more impressed.

So anyway, back to my main reason for posting. I'd love to hear some other dyno results (or track times) on similar combinations.

For reference, I have a Stage II with GN1R heads (P&P'd), PTE 74 turbo, 244 hyd roller cam, ATR headers, Dual 3" ATR exhaust, PTE front mount, Accufab 70mm, BGC intake, Fel-Pro w/75lb injectors.

Thanks in advance!

 

[86brick]

Congrats on the great dyno #'s Rob!

If you don't mind me asking why are you only using 75lb injectors It seems like most guys making that kind of power with a Stage II are using at least 95lb injectors and also what kind of fuel pump(s) are you using?? BTW, if you check out Cal's site www.hartlineperformance.com he has some dyno #'s for his car....

Later

 

[Chuck Leeper]

EGT vs A/F

looks as tho there is alot of burning fuel going into the exhaust and causing the EGT to be over 1600*.
9.4 is pig rich. I'd suggest moving the A/f closer to 11 to 1 and see if things cool off a bit.
I'm also wondering about the 75# jectors.
My combo is close to yours and I use A/F in the 11.5 range and have EGTs lower than that in race trim. I ran out of inj w/ 72's at hi 10 and went to 95's.. [still tuning on that change.]
if you have the timing cut way back, that too could add to the hi EGT.
You don't report the boost setting on the street, but that too, I would assume, is lower than 25, and could be adding to the burn in the pipes and thus the hi egt...
my $.02 worth...

 

[Rob Raymer]

Re: EGT vs A/F

Originally posted by Chuck Leeper
looks as tho there is alot of burning fuel going into the exhaust and causing the EGT to be over 1600*.
9.4 is pig rich. I'd suggest moving the A/f closer to 11 to 1 and see if things cool off a bit.
I'm also wondering about the 75# jectors.
My combo is close to yours and I use A/F in the 11.5 range and have EGTs lower than that in race trim. I ran out of inj w/ 72's at hi 10 and went to 95's.. [still tuning on that change.]
if you have the timing cut way back, that too could add to the hi EGT.
You don't report the boost setting on the street, but that too, I would assume, is lower than 25, and could be adding to the burn in the pipes and thus the hi egt...
my $.02 worth...

My boost on the street was the same as on the dyno...25lbs. I didn't change the tuning on the street yet, but yes, I planned on tunign it to 11.4-11.5:1 when I do. We were out at about 2am this morning and didn't really have time to make any changes before the rain started.

I used 75#'ers, because that's what I already had in it when I had a T70 turbo on it and a stock motor in it. I have a set of 95# injectors ready to go in if I need 'em. (which I apparently will)

I'm running 26 degrees of timing at the top.

Thanks for the input. Keep in mind, this was the first tuning session ever on this combo. I was pretty happy with 718rwhp. Especially on relatively low boost, and a very rich tune.

I saw Cal's dyno numbers (impressive), but it's hard to compare my combo to a T88. Anyone dynoed with a T76 or smaller??

 

[Rob Raymer]

Nobody else has dynoed with a T-70 or larger on a Stage motor???

I made another pass on the street today, and the A/F was a solid 9.19:1 from 5500-6500. And it looks like you're right...I'm out of injector. The DC was 104-114% at anything over 5500. Guess we'll be slapping the 95's in it this week...

It's weird though. I would think it would roll black smoke, spit an sputter, etc., at this A/F. But it doesn't. In fact, it's unbelievably responsive! Does that sound odd to anyone else?

Thanks in advance.

 

[TurboBob]

where's the o2 sensor mounted?

rumor has it that the wideband sensors read falsly rich when pressurized and therefore should be mounted downstream of the turbine.

Sounds like a fun ride.

Bob

 

[Rob Raymer]

I hadn't heard that before. It's mounted in the ATR header just before the turbo.

I don't mind moving it, as long as that's a true rumor. Anyone else had this problem?

Thanks Bob.

 

[HighPSI]

You need to move it to the downpipe. The temperatures before the turbo "might" damage it. You probably aren't out of injector "yet". Once you get the car tuned, the duty cycle is going to come down. Remember 9.19 is as rich as it can read. If it is flat lining, then your obviously even richer. I would swap in the 95#'s. It won't hurt anything and might save some parts later when you turn up the wick.

I have never had much luck tuning on a Dynojet. It will get you in the ballpark and that's about it. I have found that a dyno that puts a load on the car gets you much closer. If you want to compare dyno numbers with your Supra buddies, use a Dynojet. They produce the highest (and least accurate) readings I have found.

 

[Reggie West]

Once you get the A/F ratio to 11.5 or so you may want to back out about 3 or 4 degrees of timing on that motor.

With EGT of 1650 at WOT, that tells me you are running lean on the top end. That is where you will burn pistons.

By all means, put the 95's in and save the motor.

With a T72 turbo, Stage motor and so on, my Dads car dyno'd at 600 hp and 640 ft lbs torque. Boost was set at 25 and the car was running rich. The slicks we had on the roller did not help much either.. They started to bounce at about 120 mph on the roller so it was not exactly a smooth run on the graph.

 

[Rob Raymer]

Thanks for the input guys! But I am still wanting to hear some more Stage II dyno numbers. Is everyone THAT secretive??

 

[Canadian SY/TY]

Would you be interested in selling those 75's when you upgrade to the 95's?. If you are let me know how much you want for them.

Thanks

Nolan Nykyforuk
780-818-7483
TurboV6@telusplanet.net

 

[HighPSI]

Originally posted by Rob Raymer
Thanks for the input guys! But I am still wanting to hear some more Stage II dyno numbers. Is everyone THAT secretive??

I don't think people are that secretive. It's just most TR owners would rather brag about ET's then bench race dyno numbers. With the flat torque curve these motors make, you can get a real nice ET with a lot less peak hp than most other vehicles.

FWIW: I went 10.03 with my TE-70 and only made 629 rwhp (not a Dynojet dyno)

 

[Rob Raymer]

Okay, first track results are in (since nobody cares about dyno numbers anyway). We went to Beech Bend tonight with the same tune in the car that made 718rwhp. Here are the results:

(this was on stock wheels, full weight, and tiny Hoosier 26x9x15 slicks)

60ft 1.71
330 4.45
1/8 6.69
1/8mph 109.76
1000 8.68
1/4 10.33
mph 136.79

A/F was at a constant 9.25-9.44 at full boost. I launched at 3-4lbs of boost, and maxxed at 25-26lbs in high gear. Traction was virtually non-existent through the 330. I guess I'll work on suspension next, and maybe get some 28x10 slicks on 15x8 rims.

Pics of the engine and car can be found here: www.LS1Motorsports.com/Project-87TurboBuick.asp

 

[ijames]

And just for grins, 136.79 mph is a 9.91 on average, and at 3900 lbs (my guess at the weight going down the track) that is 788 average rwhp . That's within 10% of the dyno number which ain't bad. 3600 lbs total would be 727 average rwhp so most of the error is probably my weight guess.

et=1356/mph and hp=197*weightinlbs/et^3

 

[TurboBob]

I suspect that you are not really running that rich.

If / when you move the O2 sensor, let us know how much the reading changes.

TB

 

[top gun]

Originally posted by Rob Raymer
Thanks for the input guys! But I am still wanting to hear some more Stage II dyno numbers. Is everyone THAT secretive??

On my pte built stage motor with twin 63q turbos, made 1152 rwhp @23 pounds on a dyno jet. My tired old stock block, crank and rod motor made 620 rwhp with a 76q turbo @30 pounds on the same dyno. I have a tricked out pte built stock block motor for tsm waiting for a trip to the dyno, looking for 7 plus at the wheels.


Dave B

 

[Rob Raymer]

Originally posted by HighPSI
It's just most TR owners would rather brag about ET's then bench race dyno numbers.

Thanks for the input. I noticed your car overpowered the dyno with 1200+ ft lbs of torque (according to your webpage)? Is that correct? I mean that seems like an awful lot of torque to only run 150mph in a lightweight car. No offense.

My reasoning is this: I would think that if I threw a couple more lbs of boost at my car, leaned it down to even 10.5:1, dropped 2-300lbs, and put a real slick on it, that it SHOULD go 145 or so.
Our HP numbers are within 80rwhp of eachother, but my TQ is nowhere near yours! Which would lead me to believe that either your TQ numbers are wrong, or TQ doesn't play much of a roll in mph. See where I'm going with this?

I was just wondering if that 1200+rwtq was a torque converter or shift spike? I mean, my Z28 spiked the dynojet at over 1200rwtq also, but it only did that when it downshifted on the dyno. My actual TQ was only 728.

I'd love to see your dyno sheet if you have it posted somewhere.

Thanks for your time.

 

[Chyke]

You indicated an a/f of 9.1 or close to this. I am curious. How are you registering this. Speed Pro? Meter on teh dyno? Thanks.

 

[HighPSI]

Originally posted by Rob Raymer
Thanks for the input. I noticed your car overpowered the dyno with 1200+ ft lbs of torque (according to your webpage)? Is that correct? I mean that seems like an awful lot of torque to only run 150mph in a lightweight car. No offense.

You are proving my point. The dyno sheet "said" I was over 1200 from 4500 to 5500. I posted when I made the run that I questioned the accuracy of the dyno because I could pretty much overwhelm it when the boost would come up.
FWIW: My car weighed 3435 last weekend when I raced it, and it has gone 154+mph

Originally posted by Rob Raymer
My reasoning is this: I would think that if I threw a couple more lbs of boost at my car, leaned it down to even 10.5:1, dropped 2-300lbs, and put a real slick on it, that it SHOULD go 145 or so.
Our HP numbers are within 80rwhp of eachother, but my TQ is nowhere near yours! Which would lead me to believe that either your TQ numbers are wrong, or TQ doesn't play much of a roll in mph. See where I'm going with this?

When I made 796, my car wasn't on "kill" I was at a car show and was asked to put it up on the dyno. I agree the torque numbers are probably incorrect, but that's a Dynojet for you. I am like most TR owners, I would rather compare timeslips than dyno numbers. A better way to compare our vehicles would be for you to take it to the track. I went 8's at 26 psi. I am hoping for 8.7's when I turn the boost up and get 30 degree colder weather. Of course that is just speculation much like your 145mph run. Keep in mind' I am not saying either one of us CAN'T reach these goals.

Originally posted by Rob Raymer
I was just wondering if that 1200+rwtq was a torque converter or shift spike? I mean, my Z28 spiked the dynojet at over 1200rwtq also, but it only did that when it downshifted on the dyno. My actual TQ was only 728.

I'd love to see your dyno sheet if you have it posted somewhere.

Thanks for your time.

I don't have it posted anywhere. In fact, I will have to try and find out where I put it. Now my 8 second timeslip, I know exactly where it's at

 

[86brick]

Much better to be a "Drag" Queen rather than a "Dyno" Queen!! LOL!

No offense Rob, but if you want to see great dyno sheets and dyno #'s maybe you should check out this message board www.supraforums.com .... these guys have some of the best dyno sheets and dyno #'s on the internet, but if you ask them to show you a timeslip most of them will just say they don't have one that is better than an 11 second pass yet there turbo Supra made over 800rwhp on the dyno!!! BTW, I wonder if Dave Fiscus has any dyno sheets for his Stage II '86 GN that ran 8.96 @155mph not too long ago?? I'm sure he has his 8 second timeslip though!