Another Burned out GN owner...

[Daniel Jost]

Well!
How fast do you want to go?

Ha... Well that's another loaded question, right now I have a setup to support mid tens so the build would have to be strong enough for mid-low 10s. I know this will be fine for now but in the future I will again find myself needing to upgrade...

 

[Daniel Jost]

Wow, I'm so sorry to hear. I've had my GN for 16 years now and this thread makes me want to sell it. I've been through a lot with it, but not as much as some of you other guys for sure. I guess I've run out of patience as I got older. One setback like this would make me lose it. If I had more money and free time I would not care as much though. That being said, I went pretty conservative with my build and try not to beat on it too much so it will hopefully last a long time before any catastrophic failure.

This car unfortunately would be very hard to get rid of since it has a LOT of sentimental value to me. It was essentially my first car, I spent all of high school out running hot imports and other V8 cars with it, and my fiance loves taking it out for rides. Anymore the turbo buicks are pretty well outrun on the streets around here by your run of the mill turbo LS and now even the boosted coyotes are something as well, so anymore I am loosing any ambition to try and make it faster since my pockets aren't near deep enough to make it competitive in my area.

Pretty much the car is cool to me because it's a grand national and ditching the car or the V-6 is out of the question, I just need to get in order what I want to do next..

,Dan

 

[trixdout]

This car unfortunately would be very hard to get rid of since it has a LOT of sentimental value to me. It was essentially my first car, I spent all of high school out running hot imports and other V8 cars with it, and my fiance loves taking it out for rides. Anymore the turbo buicks are pretty well outrun on the streets around here by your run of the mill turbo LS and now even the boosted coyotes are something as well, so anymore I am loosing any ambition to try and make it faster since my pockets aren't near deep enough to make it competitive in my area.

Pretty much the car is cool to me because it's a grand national and ditching the car or the V-6 is out of the question, I just need to get in order what I want to do next..

,Dan

I say just get it back up and running bare minimum but the right way. That way you can enjoy the car, but save up. Go ta aluminum v6. Sure itll take you some time before you finish the engine but then you shouldnt have issues.

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[turbofabricator]

Really? TA aluminum? Heads OK. But block no way. That is SERIOUS commitment to make work. Steel center caps, forged crank, and rods with good pistons he would be good to go! TA block is so much money unless it is a serious race car. If you help donate some cash for him, cool. There is alot more to building an aluminum block than just a bore/hone. He would be looking at a $12,000 SHORT BLOCK if he assembled it himself. Pretty easy to spend someone else's money. I just turned down building a TA engine as it was more time than I could commit to. Not sure who actually got the job though. Unless he plans on running faster than mid to high 9's a TA block is not the answer especially since his block is fine. (Based on his posts)
Relax.......its just a fun car to scoot around in. Unless you are a purist it makes no sense to build a Buick V6 to race. A turbo'd LS makes way more power and sense. Keep in mind I have been building these cars for over 25 years. Cars are cars. Just when you think you are King Chit on the turd pile someone in an import (with tons of money) will put the hurt on ya.
To the OP...........fix the issue right and have a good time driving it. Feel free to contact me if I can help steer you in the right direction. PM's are free. So are phone calls.

 

[Daniel Jost]

Ken, I am putting a build plan together which is almost exactly as you stated; forged crank and rods, billet center mains and an align hone. I will be building the engine myself as every singe other engine I have ever done. I am maticulous about my work and would like the piece of mind assembling it myself. Several years back I used to build prototype engines for a fortune 50 company, and today I design the engine components at the same place. ;-)

As for an aluminum TA block, if I were going to build a serious rig that I was sticking 12k+ in the short block I wouldnt even hassle with a turbo LS (which my family has plenty of experience with), I would be building a big block chevy with snails and EFI. But this car is a cruiser/road trip ride.

thanks for all the support.

,Dan

 

[Daniel Jost]

Also does anyone know of a semi local reputable turbo buick machine shop near central IL? I would like to have the caps instaled and go .020 on the cylinders then deck the block to make sure everything is straight.

Thanks, Dan

 

[turbofabricator]

Dan Strezo is who I would suggest in your neck of the woods.

 

[we4Mateo]

^^^^What he said. Where is Dan's shop anyway? I was going to say Gary Oswald, but it sounds like some issues have him getting out of the game entirely. A buddy just had a T/A block finished at Gary's and he's selling off everything Buick related.

 

[BuickMike]

How many people have been breaking stock cranks recently? Going all forged bottom end for a street car or family cruiser seems over the top, but i guess if my crank broke on me I would have a different oppinion. Then again, if this happened to me, I would either get a cheap used stock motor to get it running and sell it, or keep it and do a turbo ls swap. I think the biggest thing I see burning out tb owners is that they take the project way too far. I tried to keep my combo light and dont hardly ever take my car to the track. Obviously that route isn't for everyone, however these cars are old classics at this point and parts are big money and hard to come by.

As you all can see, my GN build wore me out. The issue was that I was dealing with that and was fixing my daily drivers too. I did remedy part of the problem. I sold my 3 dd higher mileage vehicles and bought a brand new wrx and a brand new f150. Now I don't have to worry about the dd's for a long time.

 

[Daniel Jost]

I called Dan this morning, looks like $4500 would be the cost of a short block IF I get out lucky....

I am thinking I might pull it and do a stock crank so it at least can move around under it's own power and get another block to have the build done on since after this last top end and trans build along with putting a new lawn in and being recently engaged my piggy bank cant handle that this year...

,Dan

 

[BuickMike]

So is the crank the only damage (other than bearings)? If so, I would do another stock crank, back off the tune a bit, and enjoy. Then again, build it now while you are still single and don't have a family.

 

[Daniel Jost]

I have not torn the engine down yet so I cannot say for sure. I will keep my fingers crossed I can just re-crank it but who knows.

,Dan

 

[GBGN1]

I'll have my blue 3800 done very soon . You should give that some thought. Should work very well- stock Gn accessories/ adapters. Looks good. Headers being done right now and there are plans to possibly make parts of a kit to run a 3800. Wiring for it isn't hard.

 

[Daniel Jost]

I'll have my blue 3800 done very soon . You should give that some thought. Should work very well- stock Gn accessories/ adapters. Looks good. Headers being done right now and there are plans to possibly make parts of a kit to run a 3800. Wiring for it isn't hard.

I'll have to stop by you the next time I'm home if you still live in the GB area to check that car out. A 3800 is a possibility. So your saying the GN acc. bolt up? Fabricating my own headers is not a problem, neither is my own harness since I made my own harness for my MS3/COP setup on my car now to make it much cleaner than the factory. The biggest turn off is having to buy a $500 adapter to go to a 200-R4 or 4L80E since I don't trust a 4L60E any further than I can throw it unless you have crazy money in it which in that case I can pick up 2WD 4L80e's for $200 or less.

,Dan

 

[GBGN1]

No been in Houston for a few years.

 

[Daniel Jost]

So I have been thinking this over and I am wondering is this completely stupid of me or not..... I was thinking with how much people are getting for a stock crank to just get it up and going then having it cut/polished I am better off just buying a forged crank to get it up and going...

The question is if I do a forged crank with the stock block/mains and stock rods and forged pistons is there any adverse effects, as in the crank seeing a lot of early life fatigue because the stock main caps flex too much and the forged steel not having any flex cause it to fail. If I would be just as good off as with a stock one (as far as reliability with stock mains) this is what I'll do, that way this winter I can pull the motor and have the caps/rods/pistons upgraded so everything is ready to rock.

For now I could back the tune down and put in a forged crank to finish off the summer, and keep my car from being a garage ornament all summer that would be great.

Thanks, Dan

 

[we4Mateo]

So I have been thinking this over and I am wondering is this completely stupid of me or not..... I was thinking with how much people are getting for a stock crank to just get it up and going then having it cut/polished I am better off just buying a forged crank to get it up and going...

The question is if I do a forged crank with the stock block/mains and stock rods and forged pistons is there any adverse effects, as in the crank seeing a lot of early life fatigue because the stock main caps flex too much and the forged steel not having any flex cause it to fail. If I would be just as good off as with a stock one (as far as reliability with stock mains) this is what I'll do, that way this winter I can pull the motor and have the caps/rods/pistons upgraded so everything is ready to rock.

For now I could back the tune down and put in a forged crank to finish off the summer, and keep my car from being a garage ornament all summer that would be great.

Thanks, Dan

A forged crank will live just fine with stock caps. Someone here is running 9's that way, not recommended, even by him, but it is a good setup. I think it's pacecarta

 

[gnxtc2]

Daniel

I've been in the game a long time and this is my opinion...

First find out what happened.

If the timing chain broke and lock up the motor, you might get lucky by either fixing valves, cam or timing set up
or
If the crank broke, I would do the following:
- Get yourself a stroker forged crank
- Better rods
- Better pistons
- Billet center caps
Bring the short block to a reputable Buick machine shop to have the work done. The stock cranks flex which puts extra stress on the block/mains, the forged ones do not easily flex. This alone make the bottom end survive.

I would shy away from buying a used crank. These cars are over 25 years now and who knows if they have been abused even will low mileage stuff. It's like buying used Stage parts, who knows the life of the parts. There are a lot of scammers out there looking to make a quick buck by lying their a$$ off.

You can not re-crank it correctly. The balancing will be off.

Another thing, you put at least an extra 800lbs (figuring 4 - 200lbs adults) in the car when you got on it. That puts a lot of extra stress on the motor.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

 

[Daniel Jost]

So pretty much the only way to do it now even without doing billet mains if the block is good is to put a complete rotating assembly in it? Do the assemblies that companies sell like full throttle come balanced or is this something I would need a machine shop to do? Also I noticed with most of the forged cranks they require a neutral balance balancer and flex plate.... I would like to get my car back and moving for the rest of the year with a "cheaper" option but it doesn't look like there is a real feasible way of doing that... I looked at the forged external balance Eagle stroker crank from FT but the more I read that might not be a good option.

Thanks, Dan

 

[we4Mateo]

So pretty much the only way to do it now even without doing billet mains if the block is good is to put a complete rotating assembly in it? Do the assemblies that companies sell like full throttle come balanced or is this something I would need a machine shop to do? Also I noticed with most of the forged cranks they require a neutral balance balancer and flex plate.... I would like to get my car back and moving for the rest of the year with a "cheaper" option but it doesn't look like there is a real feasible way of doing that... I looked at the forged external balance Eagle stroker crank from FT but the more I read that might not be a good option.

Thanks, Dan

Yes, the entire rotating assembly needs to be balanced by a machine shop. You can have your stock balancer and flexplate neutral balanced cheaper than new but your balancer is probably shot and the flexplate is cheap enough to get new. What have you heard bad about the FT external balance stroker crank? I have no experience one way or another, just curious.