AMS1000 operation for dummies

[XXQUICK6XX]

Good info I'll be needing it soon enough.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Your source CO2 cylinder needs to be a siphon cylinder to fill your empty cylinder efficiently with liquid CO2, or if the source bottle is not a siphon bottle, you can turn the source bottle upside down so that liquid comes from the valve. Only fill your empty cylinder up to the certified weight for that cylinder. 2.5 lbs of liquid CO2 for a 2.5 lb cylinder.
Very similar to how you fill a nitrous cylinder.

Does the 'freeze the cylinder' trick work with CO2 like it does with nitrous to help get more liquid in the cylinder?

It does help by freezing the bottle. It's just much easier to pump n2o into it for me and I get so many more passes from the small bottle. Most guys are using the larger bottles now.

I have the AMS wired into the activation switch for my intercooler pump so I don't waste any Co2 or n2o. I turn it on right before the burnout and turn it off right after I pull the chute.

 

[Alky V6]

On my car, the activation wire is tied into the transbrake button. The unit arms and enters launch mode on the press of the transbrake button and is turned off by the units 'hold and wait' timer after the end of the pass. By having the 'hold and wait' timer shut down the unit, you don't have to remember to shut off a switch. You might be busy with other matters on the top end of a hairy pass.
Just make sure you have enough time set into the 'hold and wait' timer in case you've staged and are on the transbrake button while someone tries to burn you down at the line.

Dusty. You made a very good point with using nitrous as the control gas, and developing a leak with the w/g diaphragm. I'm playing with fire enough as it is. I'll probably stay away from using it as a control gas. I don't like to tempt fate. Another scenario might be, if you developed an engine bay fire and melted a control gas supply line. The leaking nitrous would make for some spectacular fireworks, and make it very, very hard to put out the fire. You really should use an inert gas.

 

[Alky V6]

That brings up a story of a friend's uncle who died running a land speed record streamliner long ago. He had air pumped to his helmet for ventilation. The supply line for the ventilation system went through the engine bay. I don't know if it was normal procedure, or if it was just this one occasion, but instead of air for his ventilation gas, he used pure oxygen during this one pass. An engine bay fire developed and the fire compromised the ventilation supply line. Needless to say, some fireworks were going on in the driver's lungs. Very sad.
It shows how important it is to think out different possible accident scenarios when it comes to equipment and safety.

 

[Alky V6]

Just make sure you have enough time set into the 'hold and wait' timer in case you've staged and are on the transbrake button while someone tries to burn you down at the line.

Never mind. The 'hold and wait' timer doesn't start until the activation signal is removed, so you can sit at the line as long as you want with the transbrake button pressed. I set the timer for about one or two seconds longer than I anticipate a pass to be.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

If there is an engine fire, there will much more to worry about than a small line with n2o being released at 50-60psi, and only a small amount of that is oxygen.

 

[Alky V6]

If there is an engine fire, there will much more to worry about than a small line with n2o being released at 50-60psi, and only a small amount of that is oxygen.

When I get a chance, I'll post a link to an engine bay fire with a nitrous line that's been compromised.

I'm not the least bit curious in finding out how a nitrous line at 50-60 psi, or 80 psi will feed an engine bay fire, or worse, an in cab fire. The lines that are typically used for control gases are far from being as safe as the lines used for true nitrous gas application.

 

[Alky V6]

Here you go.

YouTube - Worst Nitrous Explosion

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Facts about nitrous

In vehicle racing, nitrous oxide (often referred to as just "nitrous" in this context to differ from the acronym NOS which is the brand Nitrous Oxide Systems) allows the engine to burn more fuel and air, resulting in a more powerful combustion. The gas itself is not flammable, but it delivers more oxygen than atmospheric air by breaking down at elevated temperatures.

Do you know for sure it was a nitrous line and not a fuel line? Every fire I have witnessed was always fuel related. Stuck fuel solenoid 99% of the time.

A local leveled his entire workshop when he heated a 100lb bottle with a blowtorch. Luckily, he survived. It wasn't a nitrous explosion, it was a bottle rupture at over 1000psi. I'd be much more worried about the fire hazard from all the methanol lines and the nitrous bottle at 900psi in your car than the 1/4" line I have feeding my wastegate. If there is a fuel related fire under the hood of my car which could compromise the line feeding the gate, the fuel feeding the fire will be much worse than any small amount of nitrous from the 10oz bottle. I have had the line rupture before, near the turbo, it's not a huge amount that escapes. I now run all the plastic line away from heat sources.

 

[Alky V6]

Facts about nitrous

In vehicle racing, nitrous oxide (often referred to as just "nitrous" in this context to differ from the acronym NOS which is the brand Nitrous Oxide Systems) allows the engine to burn more fuel and air, resulting in a more powerful combustion. The gas itself is not flammable, but it delivers more oxygen than atmospheric air by breaking down at elevated temperatures.

Do you know for sure it was a nitrous line and not a fuel line? Every fire I have witnessed was always fuel related. Stuck fuel solenoid 99% of the time.

A local leveled his entire workshop when he heated a 100lb bottle with a blowtorch. Luckily, he survived. It wasn't a nitrous explosion, it was a bottle rupture at over 1000psi. I'd be much more worried about the fire hazard from all the methanol lines and the nitrous bottle at 900psi in your car than the 1/4" line I have feeding my wastegate. If there is a fuel related fire under the hood of my car which could compromise the line feeding the gate, the fuel feeding the fire will be much worse than any small amount of nitrous from the 10oz bottle. I have had the line rupture before, near the turbo, it's not a huge amount that escapes. I now run all the plastic line away from heat sources.

I can only assume nitrous had something to do with it by the title of the video. About halfway through the video you see a few people scramble at the rear of the car to hit the master kill switch. Toward the very end of the video you see the driver rush into the drivers compartment. Maybe to shut the nitrous bottle valve??? Oh, yeah!!

If fuel and heat are present, the last thing you want is an oxygen bearing, non-flammable gas being shot under any pressure into the mix.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

I can only assume nitrous had something to do with it by the title of the video. About halfway through the video you see a few people scramble at the rear of the car to hit the master kill switch. Toward the very end of the video you see the driver rush into the drivers compartment. Maybe to shut the nitrous bottle valve??? Oh, yeah!!

If fuel and heat are present, the last thing you want is an oxygen bearing, non-flammable gas being shot under any pressure into the mix.

I agree. The last thing I want is fuel anywhere near the engine and that is much more likely to cause an issue than the small amount of n2o that MIGHT escape from the line under the hood. The car would have to be on fire for the n2o to even be a factor anyway and like I said. If I have fuel spraying out under pressure, that's a much larger issue than any n2o will ever cause. I saw one of the nicest radial cars burn this year when the fuel rail became loose enough to allow an injector o-ring to blow out, spraying 80lbs worth of Q16 directly on the headers. The small n2o line would never cause that much damage.

In the video, I can only assume by the looks of the car and track that there was very little safety concern. The track and driver didn't have any idea what to do 1st...cut the power. You can also assume there weren't real braided lines on any of the fuel lines so any backfire could burn the fuel line, further fueling the fire. The only thing I got out of the video was....what not to do by people who have no clue what they're messing with. I'm at the track alot and have saw my share of fires. I have never saw a fire due to n2o but I have saw what happens when the bottle is involved in a fire.

 

[Alky V6]

Oxygen, in itself, is also non-flammable. It, along with N2O, are classified as oxidizers. But you handle oxygen very carefully, don't you. One of the rules of oxy/acetylene welding is keeping grease off of your welding equipment. It's because of the presence of oxygen and the fire hazard it creates around fuels.

I won't bust your juevos over this anymore. I just think that if you're going to lay out an option like that for others, you should also include some very serious warnings. There's a very good reason why nitrous lines are made the way they are.

 

[tom j]

Donnie, Did you get my email. Sorry for the hijack

 

[Alky V6]

Donnie, Did you get my email. Sorry for the hijack

I have it in my hands. I'll study it tonight.

 

[tom j]

I have it in my hands. I'll study it tonight.

Thanks

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Oxygen, in itself, is also non-flammable. It, along with N2O, are classified as oxidizers. But you handle oxygen very carefully, don't you. One of the rules of oxy/acetylene welding is keeping grease off of your welding equipment. It's because of the presence of oxygen and the fire hazard it creates around fuels.

I won't bust your juevos over this anymore. I just think that if you're going to lay out an option like that for others, you should also include some very serious warnings. There's a very good reason why nitrous lines are made the way they are.

It's all good Nitrous lines also operate at 900+ psi compared to the 60-70 psi the wastegate operates at. I feel a fire from these lines are the least of my worries. Intake backfire.......maybe. I've tried both Co2 and found I prefer the current way rather than swapping over to the larger 2.5 or 5# bottles to get the same amount of runs. One day, I may put the effort out to get a full 10oz of co2 in the small bottle.

 

[Alky V6]

Has anyone had any bad experiences with the push-to-connect type plumping hardware?
Or, has anyone come up with any neat tips they'd like to share for the same?

 

[Alky V6]

Solenoid flow at rest and energized state

The ports on the control solenoids flows as follows with power off to the solenoids.

'In' (1) port: flow into and out of the solenoid body is blocked.
'Out' (2) port: flow is free to enter the solenoid body and exits the 'exh' (3) port.
'Exh' (3) port: flow is free to enter the solenoid body and exits the 'out' (2) port.

Solenoids energized (100% duty cycle).

'In' (1) port: flow is free to enter the solenoid body and exits the 'out' (2) port.
'Out' (2) port: flow is free to enter the solenoid body and exits the 'in' (1) port.
'Exh' (3) port: flow into and out of the solenoid body is blocked.

 

[Robert Wilson]

Has anyone had any bad experiences with the push-to-connect type plumping hardware?
Or, has anyone come up with any neat tips they'd like to share for the same?

I done quite a bit of research on these fittings and ended up going with Nycoil brand fittings. They had the highest temperature rating of any I researched. Most fittings were rated for 140 to 170 degrees F which I felt was a little low for the engine bay. The Nycoil is 200 degreees F in the nickle plated brass style and I have had no issues with them. I even have them on the gate.

Here is a link and a photo of what I am using:
Nycoil - Poly-Matic Fittings

 

[Alky V6]

Thanks Rob.
I elected to use the plain brass colored connectors. Here are some pics of the install. I mounted the 'boost' channel and 'aux' channel solenoids close together above the turbo compressor housing, and between the wastegate and BOV. This keeps the overall plumbing to a minimum.