Advancement of fuel delivery?

[Alky V6]

I'm finishing up a major rework of my fuel system. I separated my auxiliary fuel from my nitrous system and added a plastic internal fuel rail inside my plenum. The fuel rail will have Kinsler aerated nozzles pointing down each intake runner. It will be a constant flow setup controlled by an electric solenoid via a manifold pressure switch and GPO control. It will be supplied by the EFI fuel delivery system. Turn on point will be 16 psi.

This will make the nitrous system totally separate from the control of the main fuel system and will give me much more flexibility on how and when to use the nitrous injection. With the added freedom of control of the nitrous system, I can now research some nitrous components and control systems that will allow me to precisely control nitrous injection throughout the run. Provide a major hit at the start for spool up, then back off the amount for the remainder of the run.

What do you think?

 

[Boost231]

wow you never cease to amaze me.

 

[Chevota]

I'm finishing up a major rework of my fuel system. I separated my auxiliary fuel from my nitrous system and added a plastic internal fuel rail inside my plenum. The fuel rail will have Kinsler aerated nozzles pointing down each intake runner. It will be a constant flow setup controlled by an electric solenoid via a manifold pressure switch and GPO control. It will be supplied by the EFI fuel delivery system. Turn on point will be 16 psi.

This will make the nitrous system totally separate from the control of the main fuel system and will give me much more flexibility on how and when to use the nitrous injection. With the added freedom of control of the nitrous system, I can now research some nitrous components and control systems that will allow me to precisely control nitrous injection throughout the run. Provide a major hit at the start for spool up, then back off the amount for the remainder of the run.

What do you think?

What EFI system are you using Don? The XFI does all of that without the need for seperate components and control systems.

Scott Wile

 

[Alky V6]

The Tec3r will do it too, but after doing some research on PWing nitrous solenoids, I've learned that the popular current components are not reliable. I'm looking at the WON components and controller. The solenoids and controllers are purpose built for each other.

 

[Chevota]

The Tec3r will do it too, but after doing some research on PWing nitrous solenoids, I've learned that the popular current components are not reliable. I'm looking at the WON components and controller. The solenoids and controllers are purpose built for each other.

I see. Will you make it to the WCN this year?

scott wile

 

[Alky V6]

Not sure yet.

Congrats on the new times. I think I read you got her into the eights. Way to go.

 

[Chevota]

Thank you sir. Maybe one of these days we can compare strategies.

scott wile

 

[Alky V6]

Anytime. I'm always open for that.

 

[Lonnie]

Don,
I was contemplating the same thing a while back with the aerated nozzles, but the tech people selling them were clueless with respect to flows, pressures etc. Maybe you had better luck than me.

If you could send me your phone #, I'd be glad to call & compare notes.

My e-mail is sales@lonniesperformance.com

 

[Alky V6]

Don,
I was contemplating the same thing a while back with the aerated nozzles, but the tech people selling them were clueless with respect to flows, pressures etc. Maybe you had better luck than me.

If you could send me your phone #, I'd be glad to call & compare notes.

My e-mail is sales@lonniesperformance.com

Sent. Look forward to the conversation.

 

[Alky V6]

It worked! This last weekend was the first testing of the new system. There is a small time delay from when the fuel rail solenoid is activated to when fuel begins to flow from the nozzles. That's due to the volume of space from the solenoid to the nozzles. It caused a lean spot and some rough running for a split second. I'll need to adjust the point where I cut back the PW of the electronic injectors in the fuel map to compensate for the delay. A set of secondary electronic injectors mounted in the plenum with a flow through fuel rail would work out much better. Wouldn't have to worry about any delay after activation. The orifice of the nozzles were a tad bit on the large size and I'm straining the limits of the fuel map to get enough cut back on the PW of the injectors during aux fuel activation to get a good power mixture. The internal fuel rail is definitely supplying the majority of the engine's fuel needs with the electronic injectors, so far, down to a PW of 2.9ms (160 lb/hr) right after step down. With the present fuel table setup, the leanest I can get while on the aux fuel rail is .72 lambda. Feels dam strong though, and it's safe. After the split second of roughness until the aux fuel starts feeding, the ignition cleans up completely and she runs like a bear. Highest MPH for the weekend was 109.++ (1/8 mile) at 24 psi boost. I won't be going over 24 psi boost until I get the fuel cutback timing dialed in. I also think I figured out why I wasn't getting more than 21-22 psi boost from this turbo before. It helps to tighten up the tensions on your BOV, intake pop off and wastegate. DOH!!! No nitrous was used for spooling over the weekend. After the fuel map is dialed in, and it is close, I'll start using the nitrous for a hard launch. The nitrous is now setup on a WOT switch and is no longer controlled by a GOP of the ECM. This will allow me to get instant nitrous activation at or before launch time. Should be interesting.

 

[Chevota]

Congrats! Next time I'm down your way I definately need to stop by check out your setup. It sounds like our combos and goals are the same except with totally different strategies! (Although you've probably got me beat in the effeciency area.) BTW, just how big is the new motor?

Scott Wile

 

[Alky V6]

224 cid.

 

[Lonnie]

Don,
Nice talking with you last week & I'm glad it is working out for you. R&D is expensive & time consuming to say the least.

Sounds like you can drop the 160's down to a smaller injector to regain some tuning ability.

 

[Alky V6]

I hear you. The problem is that at 16 psi, the point that I turn off the nitrous and turn on the aux fuel, the injectors (160 lb/hr) are really close to max duty cycle. Especially, with the overlapping I'm going to have to use to take care of the delay from activation to actual fuel delivery from the aux fuel rail. I'm going to go ahead and tune everything in with the present setup. Then, I'll start throwing a little more boost at it and see if the new fuel requirement will give me back some range from the electronic injectors.
A good sign is that the mixture is very rich when the aux fuel turns on, but then leans out with rpm. After each shift and resulting rpm drop, the mixture goes back to rich and as rpm rises again, the mixture leans. When I say leans, it's still way too rich for max power. The target lambda is .771. At the leanest point, at max rpm, I'm getting .716.

The present testing boost level is 24, with 28 being the planned max.

 

[Alky V6]

This last Friday was a test for the nitrous system. It is now on a WOT switch and activates immediately. On the first run I launched the way I used to. Stab the throttle on the first amber, release the transbrake on the last amber, and roll into the nitrous activation which was controlled by the ECM. This time, by transbrake release on the last amber she was straining at the reins. She jumped into the air a good foot or more. I increased the nitrous retard after that, since I'm still tuning in transition points in the VE map. I now stab the throttle on the second amber. Nitrous immediately takes the stall of the T/C to just around 3400 rpm. Perfect. Because of the lower CR of my present engine, it takes exactly one second to get to 16 psi boost (past engine, .4 seconds). This is where the nitrous is shut down. This is also with very retarded timing and a very safe mixture. The time to 16 psi will lessen, I'm sure, as the tuning comes in.

I have witnessed a very interesting affect with the nitrous system. It is the accumulating affect of the space volume between the nitrous solenoid and the injection nozzles where the jets are located. Since the nitrous lines and distribution blocks carry nitrous in a mostly liquid state (if good purging is performed) by the time the solenoid is turned off, this liquid still trapped between the solenoid and jets of the nozzles must now decompress. In doing so, it converts to a gas while still in the lines and maintains a high pressure as it does so. This causes nitrous, in a mix of liquid and gaseous state to continue to be injected into the engine long after the FUEL side of the nitrous system has shut down. This causes a very large lean spike. A very dangerous situation. Just what I need. Another tuning problem to deal with.

 

[Chevota]

Sounds like the distance from the solenoid to the injection points are extremely long. Although a longer line will soften the hit, it will also hold more volume and create the situation you're having. Jetting will have the greatest affect of how long that liquid remains in the line and continues to hold pressure past the shut-off point. Shorten that line or put some bigger jets in! Good luck!

Scott Wile

 

[Alky V6]

Sounds like the distance from the solenoid to the injection points are extremely long. Although a longer line will soften the hit, it will also hold more volume and create the situation you're having. Jetting will have the greatest affect of how long that liquid remains in the line and continues to hold pressure past the shut-off point. Shorten that line or put some bigger jets in! Good luck!

Scott Wile

The length of the nitrous line is giving me perfect activation timing as far as the nitrous and fuel getting to the nozzles at the same time. It's only on the turn off of the system that's a problem. If I shorten the nitrous line, I would assume the nitrous will reach the nozzles before the fuel and lead to a lean spike at the start. Catch 22. Bigger jets? You're kidding right?

 

[Chevota]

So, just how long is that line between solenoid and jets, and what size is it? Direct port? Distribution blocks? The easiest fix, if nothing else works, would be to wire in another solenoid on the distribution block(or tee'd of the feed line) that is set up to open when the primary feed solenoid closes to simply, and effectively bleed off the residual n2o. Might be possible to tie in to the purge system to minimize complexity.

Scott Wile

 

[J-B Racing]

Don = Nitrous Einstein.....