Advanced Engine Theory and Design

[chevyII]

If you zoom in he has made a box style spacer between the header and turbo. Its a simple just two T4 flanges spaced 4" apart or so. And box them in and weld a short turn down for the waste gate. It packages everything as tight as possible and let the bypass gas be put into the DP since they are onlYinches apart.


If I go with twins this design would be used for sure. Easy to fab.

 

[John Wilde]

Just use these;

http://www.innovativeturbo.com/pages/cart_itemDetails.asp?sku=260001

http://www.innovativeturbo.com/pages/cart_itemDetails.asp?sku=260002

 

[Alky V6]

New valve material.

http://www.autofieldguide.com/columns/0606euro.html

With the rpm potential of Kenny's engine, it makes sense to go with the lightest components available. F1 banned the material. Makes me wonder what that stuff costs.

I'm using coated Ti on the exhaust this time around. Even though alcohol is a little easier on the exhaust valve, I still noticed some slight deforming of the face of the valve on the last engine.

 

[John Wilde]

With the rpm potential of Kenny's engine, it makes sense to go with the lightest components available. F1 banned the material. Makes me wonder what that stuff costs.

I'm using coated Ti on the exhaust this time around. Even though alcohol is a little easier on the exhaust valve, I still noticed some slight deforming of the face of the valve on the last engine.

Don,

I think the last time Kenny freshened Chris's motor he put in stainless exhaust valves. Who wants to suck a valve at 8500 plus rpm!!!???

I wonder why F1 would ban anything, with the kind of budgets they have???

 

[Alky V6]

In a gas application, stainless is a safe bet. The line where Ti is not desirable as an exhaust valve is when exhaust temp is 1,400 degrees or higher. Alcohol exhaust temps are typically in the low 1,300s.

 

[John Wilde]

In a gas application, stainless is a safe bet. The line where Ti is not desirable as an exhaust valve is when exhaust temp is 1,400 degrees or higher. Alcohol exhaust temps are typically in the low 1,300s.

Thanks Don!!!

 

[chevyII]

Cool didnt know they were an production part.

 

[Alky V6]

I must stress that Ti is not the material to use in a turbo gas exhaust valve application, unless your talking about the material Kenny's using. The company I use for my valves made it very clear to me that if exhaust temps were going to be 1,400 degrees F or higher, bad things would happen.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

I used Ferrera's super alloy exhaust valve in my SBC. A friend used Stainless in a twin turbo engine and 3 out of the 8 exhaust valves were warped.

 

[Alky V6]

I used Ferrera's super alloy exhaust valve in my SBC. A friend used Stainless in a twin turbo engine and 3 out of the 8 exhaust valves were warped.

Would that super alloy be something other than Inconel? I understand Inconel is a popular alloy for exhaust valves in extreme turbo applications.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Sorry, it's actually Ferrea

Here's the description from their website

"Ferrea super alloy valves... represent the highest level of sophistication in valve technology. We proudly introduced the next generation of extreme heat resistant valves, specifically developed to withstand the brutal punishment of NHRA Top Fuel and Funny Car applications. We have developed a specially processed high nickel-based alloy, and a unique heat-treatment process, which yields extreme heat resistance and enormous tensile strength properties, (far beyond conventional Inconel materials).

These extraordinary valves will set the standards for all Supercharged, Turbocharged, Nitrous Oxide, Off-Shore Marine or 9.0 compressin restricted race motors. Many Top Fuel Dragster and Funny Car teams can confirm the performance and reliability of these new valves which are now available for many engine combinations including NASCAR, Sprint Car, Drag Race, and Off-Shore Marine applications.

We have expanded our offerings for the Top/Fuel and Funny/Car applications with a Super Alloy Valve available for every after-market head in both 11/32 & 3/8-stem sizes."

They were reasonably priced also. I bought mine last year through Flatlander racing for $220 shipped to my door.

 

[Alky V6]

On the subject of connecting rods. A wide journal connecting rod (wider than OEM) is the accepted standard for a high HP Buick V6. With that being established, other specifications of the rod to examine are the beam length limits, if there are any, piston pin diameter, rod material, H beam or I beam, weight limitations.

 

[Alky V6]

Sorry, it's actually Ferrea

Here's the description from their website

"Ferrea super alloy valves... represent the highest level of sophistication in valve technology. We proudly introduced the next generation of extreme heat resistant valves, specifically developed to withstand the brutal punishment of NHRA Top Fuel and Funny Car applications. We have developed a specially processed high nickel-based alloy, and a unique heat-treatment process, which yields extreme heat resistance and enormous tensile strength properties, (far beyond conventional Inconel materials).

These extraordinary valves will set the standards for all Supercharged, Turbocharged, Nitrous Oxide, Off-Shore Marine or 9.0 compressin restricted race motors. Many Top Fuel Dragster and Funny Car teams can confirm the performance and reliability of these new valves which are now available for many engine combinations including NASCAR, Sprint Car, Drag Race, and Off-Shore Marine applications.

We have expanded our offerings for the Top/Fuel and Funny/Car applications with a Super Alloy Valve available for every after-market head in both 11/32 & 3/8-stem sizes."

They were reasonably priced also. I bought mine last year through Flatlander racing for $220 shipped to my door.

Very good info. Thanks for contributing. What is the weight of this material like? How does it compare to other materials?

 

[SPEEDSTAR]

Exh. Valves

IME The exh valve can rob an engine gradually and sometimes quickly of power. When an engine is new , the exh. valve seats are very concentric and seal up good, After the engine is raced a weekend or two, its et and mph sometimes drops off , never to be had again, not until head maint. is performed. The lost of power comes from just right after racing ,the engine is shut off while the valves are real hot and many are off thier seats. Ea. exh. valve ,while cooling will also be warping in the stem close to the head, Now valve seal is lost. The only way to gain this lost power back is to regrind ea. valve and seat and lap them in. Sometimes this is the reason a car will start a season running with the fastest cars, and then drop off and back and some cars stay fast.Jeff

 

[Alky V6]

Great info Jeff. Might a leak down test be a good way to catch a problem valve? I'm aware that a bad ring set could confuse the diagnosis, but with good listening skills one could catch leaking pressure past a bad valve.

I should add a personal experience here. I performed a leakdown test just before the last engines final outing and all cylinders came in at 2% or better. This was an engine that was do for a freshening up (200+ runs including testing and actual time runs). Even with the good test, the valves showed signs of non-uniform seating on the faces. This was a non-coated Ti exhaust valve. Interesting, isn't it.

Another thing to keep in mind. The moment a valve starts to accumulate carbon buildup, performance will go south.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Very good info. Thanks for contributing. What is the weight of this material like? How does it compare to other materials?

I can't say about the weight as I didn't check into it.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

IME The exh valve can rob an engine gradually and sometimes quickly of power. When an engine is new , the exh. valve seats are very concentric and seal up good, After the engine is raced a weekend or two, its et and mph sometimes drops off , never to be had again, not until head maint. is performed. The lost of power comes from just right after racing ,the engine is shut off while the valves are real hot and many are off thier seats. Ea. exh. valve ,while cooling will also be warping in the stem close to the head, Now valve seal is lost. The only way to gain this lost power back is to regrind ea. valve and seat and lap them in. Sometimes this is the reason a car will start a season running with the fastest cars, and then drop off and back and some cars stay fast.Jeff

I also noticed on my engine during the first month of racing that the valve lash tightened up after 10 passes or so. Now they haven't moved in the last 30 passes. The only answer to this would be from the valve seat settling in the head or from the hot valve deforming making the stem longer. I am leaning towards the seat settling in the head because I no longer have to adjust the valves like I did in the beginning. It would also pull until 7400rpm where now it won't rev past 7250.

I am down a couple mph from the start of the season which IMO is from loss of spring pressure. The pressure loss being from usual pressure drop along with the increase in installed height from the seats moving in the heads. I'll know more about this when I check the springs in a couple weeks. I set installed height at 2.100 so I'm interested to see how much difference there is in height now. High rpm, high boost engines are hell on valvetrain parts.

 

[Alky V6]

I also noticed on my engine during the first month of racing that the valve lash tightened up after 10 passes or so. Now they haven't moved in the last 30 passes. The only answer to this would be from the valve seat settling in the head or from the hot valve deforming making the stem longer. I am leaning towards the seat settling in the head because I no longer have to adjust the valves like I did in the beginning. It would also pull until 7400rpm where now it won't rev past 7250.

I am down a couple mph from the start of the season which IMO is from loss of spring pressure. The pressure loss being from usual pressure drop along with the increase in installed height from the seats moving in the heads. I'll know more about this when I check the springs in a couple weeks. I set installed height at 2.100 so I'm interested to see how much difference there is in height now. High rpm, high boost engines are hell on valvetrain parts.

Great stuff. Keep us informed on what you find.

This should be a good example of the importance of keeping track on valve adjustment and whether it is moving around on you or not. When an adjustment is moving, every contact point of the valve train must be taken into account. Even those areas not so easily examined. What I mean by that is the needle bearings and races of the lifters and roller rockers. It's surprising how fast a roller bearing setup can deteriorate.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

When I tear into it I'll share the findings.

 

[SPEEDSTAR]

Great info Jeff. Might a leak down test be a good way to catch a problem valve? I'm aware that a bad ring set could confuse the diagnosis, but with good listening skills one could catch leaking pressure past a bad valve.

I should add a personal experience here. I performed a leakdown test just before the last engines final outing and all cylinders came in at 2% or better. This was an engine that was do for a freshening up (200+ runs including testing and actual time runs). Even with the good test, the valves showed signs of non-uniform seating on the faces. This was a non-coated Ti exhaust valve. Interesting, isn't it.

Another thing to keep in mind. The moment a valve starts to accumulate carbon buildup, performance will go south.

Could the valve sprind sear pressure make a warped head pull up flat to the seat. I believe thats the reason for your false pos. leak down test, seeing that on vis. inspection it didnt conform properly.Also by the time you dail a new engine in it has already happened. The valves need to be redone after 3 weekends of dail end IME. jeff