A new guy

[koolctk]

hello, I have an 89 GTA with a 350 mostly stock and 66,xxx on it. I am a member of thirdgen.org and was considing putting in a turbo v6 instead of an ls1 or stroker etc., the sticky that you have at the top of the forum is pretty nice especially for one message board.

anyways my question is what it would cost to put in a turbo'd six that could run 11's on an alky injection and street tires. I do apologize for not searching the entire site to find out, I did seach for an hour reading diffrent prices and what not but couldn't really find what I was looking for.

I am also wondering if a buick v6 will hook up to any other transmissions besides the 200r4, and if anyone has swapped a manual into their TTA.

I did see alot of guys selling there stage two blocks for 12k plus which blew me away but I am guessing that those motors are for sub ten cars (I hope).

any info you guys could share would be great and sorry for the broad questions, I am also curious if you think it would cost me more to do this swap then to buy a TTA (I would think that it would be the same if not cheaper). And my main reason for not just buying a TTA is that I like my black GTA and would not want to go through the process of changing the TTA color since personally I need a black car.

thanks alot, Cameron

 

[Quiky One]

Welcome. As I know there are two "clones". TTA850 and turbo91bird. 12k is for one heck of a motor....Probably, stroker (if not an aftermarket crank), roller cam, heads, girdle, all the goodies. I would say 5-6k would give a nice 11.0 motor. Now add turbo, injectors, intercooler, ect. the price rises. I would guesstimate in the end it would be cheaper to just buy one but if the color is really an issue, I can't help there. Are you planning to keep the AC?

Jason

 

[Lee_Burough]

Welcome Cameron

Its probably more complicated than first meets the eye to change to a turbo V-6 like the TTA. Probably more expensive than you think too. Mostly because there are not many parts floating around that are necessary for the conversion.

Search this forum for similar threads and you will find many opinions on the subject. One recent post offered all the parts necessary to make the switch.

Many figure that it would be cheaper in the long run just to buy a TTA. Down the road a TTA would be worth more at resale too.

Good Luck

 

[72firebird]

Well I'll make another one of my long posts haha. To start with you don't need a Stage 2 motor, you can go mid 10s just fine on a stock block. I'm not exactly sure on the prices for a motor and transmission since I've never really looked at them, but obviously you'll save money if you can buy one that's already built from someone who might be going to a stage 2. If you go with a GN motor with GN heads and GN headers which will be much cheaper you'll have to remove the AC box in order to get it to fit. Now if you want to keep the AC you'll need TTA heads which are also 3.0L FWD Buick heads and TTA headers and crossover pipe and for all that you're talking about $1000. A lot of people have switched to a TH400 I believe in GNs so I imagine you could do the conversion on a GTA too but it might require some work. There have been a couple people who have done a manual swap but if you're wanting to drag race it then stick with an auto or else it'll drop your 1/4 about .5 seconds.

Now if you decide to go with a 200r4 I'll list the mods you'll need and an approximate price to give you an idea of what you're getting into. You'll need to factor in the price of tranny, motor, and exhaust depending on what you want. These are all prices for new parts too so you can save by buying some of them used.

Turbo - $900 I'd suggest atleast a PT51 but I'd go bigger so you have room to expand
injectors - $300 if you're gunna run alky and running 11s you'll probably want 50lbs injectors
intercooler - $400 you can pick up a TTA or GN intercooler and I think the small stock location intercoolers will work too but there aren't very many options. This is a tough area to give a price because you can spend from $200-$1500 easily
Intake piping - $150 for filter and hard pipes
Alky - $450 get the kit from Razor on here Alkycontrol best thing you can get.
Wiring - I think I would just get a painless harness and run a stock computer. The TTA and GN ECUs are the same I think. If you wanted to go crazy you could get FAST or if you want to stay cheap you can do Megasquirt

It's really hard to lay out since there's soo many options. It'll come out to being about the same price as putting an LS1 in by the end of it. As much as I love my TTA though I think I would go with the LS1 and use a T56. The aftermarket right now for the LS1s is going crazy and parts are getting really cheap, where as the TB aftermarket has leveled off. There's a lot more to it but in the end the difficulty and price is about the same.

 

[72firebird]

Oh yeah I forgot about getting the 200r4 built so you're talking like another $2k

 

[koolctk]

thanks for the feed back its very much appreciated, the biggest thing for me seems to be the finding TTA parts to put on the car. And yes I understand that an LS1 would be better to swap too I just wanted to toss up the idea of doing a turbo smog legal CA car, that is my biggest issue with duing and LS1 swap I cant turbo it and make it smog legal, not that turbo are the almighty (I am currently running a 150 shot) I just thought it would be different.

So it seems like my only problem with have my GTA is that the intercooler will be hard to fab up or find, if I want AC then I need to find a TTA heads and TTA headers, so I can use a GN block and cam and turbo and everything else right? but which one would that be?

And my biggest question would be how to make it CA smog legal in my car, and if most of my parts come from an 87 GN then I might be kind of screwed.

LS1 seems like the most cost effective route, but I like toying with this idea.
And the only reason why I am not making a nice TPI gen 1 setup is because TPI ECM's suck, especially the MAF (forgot the exact ecm number).
How hard is it to tune the stock computers for these 90* motors (they are 90* right?) while passing smog, if thats even needed to do a run 11' in my GTA?

Thanks again, Cameron

 

[bkoons]

Check this link, 5k for a rebuilt nearly turn-key tta motor with the headers.

Product Listing - Limited-Items

Stock GN computer and harness isn't too expensive (plenty on this board). What 72firebird said for the turbo, intercooler, injectors & inlet piping sounds like a reasonable estimate. The downpipe is another item tough to find anymore but there is a group trying to get some built (see the sticky at the top of the page). The TTA's had single CAT exhaust which is different than your 350 with dual but if you do a custom downpipe you could probably adapt to the duals. California emmisions is probably the killer.

Probably a lot cheaper ways to get to 11's with your car... but there's no better fealing than runnin with trailered to the track screamin load transbraked throttle-stopped "Street Cars" with a little 6 that can drive 80+ miles to and from the track.

 

[91Bird305]

Yeah, everything everyone said it pretty much right. If you want to go with a 700r4, TCI makes an adapter plate. That is what I did.

It is an expensive swap though.

Also, you can have GN heads and your AC but you just have to route your downpipe below the crossmember like I had done.

You just lose a little clearance but I don't bottom out unless I am going over a large speed bump or a bad driveway. Regular road driving, pot holes, etc. aren't a problem.

And I mounted my FMIC here

Just be prepared to get a new front air dam or fix it up. lol. I fixed all my cuts this winter and yes, I know a clamp is missing. We took the picture as soon as we mounted it.

 

[72firebird]

Oh yeah I forgot about a downpipe PhillyTurboSix is making a 3" pipe which I think is like $1,000 right now which is probably your best bet. After the downpipe the TTA exhaust is the same as a 305 single cat exhaust. If you put a nice high flow cat on it I think you should be able to pass emissions but yuo never know in California. You can also have Eric Marshall burn you a chip to help pass emissions too. For the intercooler I would just find a TTA intercooler and use an intercooler scoop, it's the easiest way to go about it so you don't have any fitment problems and it'll do just fine with the alky injection. Try looking here http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/turbo-trans-am-tech/206905-89-turbo-trans-am-intercooler-sale.html he probably still has the intercooler and then you could just wait to find an intercooler scoop or buy a new one from CAR Motorsports (their site is down right now) for $450, but it'd be much cheaper if you can find a used one. The motor that Bkoons posted in my opinion is a little on the high side but it's nice since it's new and comes with everything so you don't have to search for it. I would buy a motor that is built up a little bit and then just post up about the parts that you need and normally someone will come out of the woodwork like Grumpy who just has a warehouse full of parts.

 

[Chrisk]

wouldnt it be cheaper to just find a TTA?

 

[TTA850]

And my biggest question would be how to make it CA smog legal in my car, and if most of my parts come from an 87 GN then I might be kind of screwed.

I dont know much about keeping something smog legal in CA(or even my home state of NY lol :wink: )but I'd think you would have to duplicate a TTA motor - which means GN heads and headers are out. The heads, valve covers, and rocker arm setup are no big deal scince they were very common and are still fairly easy to come by. No you wont find 702 castings but you will find 515 and some others that will work. Plus if you want roller rockers Harland Sharp can help you out there. Dont forget that you'll be bumping compression putting TTA style heads on a GN longblock, so plan for new pistons if thats a concern.

In my opinion the hard part is finding the headers and crossover without paying a fortune for them, it can be done if you have patience - I've picked up several sets for under $300. Hopefully you have the ability to fabricate, scince thats going to be the easiest and cheapest route for a downpipe. Otherwise your looking at big bucks for one if you can find it.

A GN intercooler will work just fine and the TTA scoop is around, though expensive. You can always massage a GN scoop to fit with a little plastic work :biggrin: Or go with a front mount, with a little luck there will be one available again soon.

The easiest way to wire it is with a TTA harness, which again can be found for reasonable money if you wait - I've picked up several for under $300(including an nos one I used in my GTA). Plus you can pick up a TTA instrument cluster to really complete the conversion, again with time you can find them reasonably - I've got a few and only one cost me $450, the rest were about half that. Otherwise a GN harness can be made to work if your familiar with working with electronics.

For trannies, I'd only use either a 2004R if you NEED to overdrive or a TH400. Personally I love the TH400, it's cheap and totally reliable. I probrobly have $1500 in my transmission and it hasent given me a problem in 5 years, 600+ passes, and over 30K miles.

For your goals though, I'd just try and find a TTA and deal with the color. I know for sure you can get a stocker into the 11's for about $1000 on racegas, and I'm sure it will go a little quicker running methanol. From there your only a turbo/converter upgrade away from consistant mid 11 second performance and long term you havent messed the car up enough to ruin it's resale value.

 

[72firebird]

wouldnt it be cheaper to just find a TTA?

yup, if you're determined to have an LC2 powered car just sell yours and buy a TTA. You'll end up having less total money into it and the car will hold it's value better. You can pick one up if you look hard enough for $10k for a nice 60-70k mile car. Plus then you can tell people "it's all stock".

 

[TT/Ameasap]

I was going to do the same thing in 2000 until I got on this board. It is way cheaper to just buy a TTA than do the swap. I bought a TTA and sold the Formula later. The TQ makes you giggle at stock boost levels compared to the Formy.

 

[koolctk]

Thanks alot for all the replies. Just to clarify I dont want to make a TTA clone I just want a turbo six in my car, nothing else different. I was thinking wbout buying a TTA and selling my car but how cheaply can they be found?
with my car I could pull 8K maybe on for the street value, but I haven't seen a TTA cheaper than 11K. The other thing, since I dont know alot about boosted motors, would I need to get pistons and a fatty alky shot for my motor if I want to run pump gas? I live in CA and we have a 91 as our highest octane level, and from what I hear its more like a 89 octane that people have back east (basically a ****ty gas). thanks

Cameron

 

[72firebird]

Thanks alot for all the replies. Just to clarify I dont want to make a TTA clone I just want a turbo six in my car, nothing else different. I was thinking wbout buying a TTA and selling my car but how cheaply can they be found?
with my car I could pull 8K maybe on for the street value, but I haven't seen a TTA cheaper than 11K. The other thing, since I dont know alot about boosted motors, would I need to get pistons and a fatty alky shot for my motor if I want to run pump gas? I live in CA and we have a 91 as our highest octane level, and from what I hear its more like a 89 octane that people have back east (basically a ****ty gas). thanks

Cameron

you could buy a TTA with similar mileage as your GTA for $12-13k if you look in all the right places. Right before the Barret Jackson auction was the time to buy. But in the long run after the swap on your car you're going to have more the $5k into just the swap. So if you were to get a real TTA you wouldn't have to worry about finding all the parts and everything for the swap and you would own a more stable vehicle that is on the rise in market value and should be hitting a steep slope upwards in the next couple years.

 

[Sweet6]

I agree with the others. You are better off buying a real TTA. You can get a decent high mielage one for $10K. Or a 40K mile one for $15-$16K. And they are only going up in value.