200 or 700?

R

robert duncan

Active Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2014
Guy on facebook just told me that the first three numbers on GM transmissions indicates how strong a transmission is. Like th350 to th400, so 700 is stronger than 200. Is that true? Seems chevy guys get all bent out of shape when you tell them that the 200 is a better transmission because all they know is chevy shit. I cited a quote by Lonnie Diers:

700 or 200?

"Honestly its not even a fair fight. The 2004R will handle power that far exceeds that of any 700R4 or 4L60 that can be built at any price. 2004R has a better gear ratio spread, better overdrive ratio, will fit many more applications, lighter, stronger ... I can go on and on. The 700R4 is best left to applications where its the only option such as 4WD or All WD, tow vehicles, Lower HP applications or for folks that are more concerned with budget versus strength and reliability." -- LONNIE DIERS

I'm not a transmission builder, but I believe it. Hell, what Buick guy would you ever talk to who said he put a 700 in a GN. I never heard of one. It's almost laughable. Any other thoughts out there?
 
Laugh all you want but I had a TH400 on my 71 big block Chevelle and replaced it with a 700R4 and never regretted it. ;)...but I do not race the car. It definitely makes the car way more pleasant to drive on the highway and I am not worried at all about the power it can handle as it was built using all the best stuff (shafts, drums, clutches, planetaries etc...) money can buy. People take fun in "bad mouthing" the 7004R but it is their problem, I do not listen to them... because the same could be said for a 200R4...:rolleyes:
As for my GN it is another story. I went the the way around and got rid of the 200R4 to go with a TH400 with trans-brake for better reliability at the track.:giggle:
Claude.
 
He is a chevy guy on facebook, nuff said.

The shell, even the monster, or what ever will only carry so much power through it. Same goes for the shaft on the forward drum in the 2004r. But with the billet shaft fwd drum the 2004r wins. Then you get to the input shaft on each. WHile the 700r4/4l60e looks bigger it isn't a solid shaft and has several passages through it making it the weaker of the two. Then you get to the bigger jump from 1 to 2(it is a truck trans designed to pull things and get heavy trucks moving) of the 7004r4/4l60e. Not ideal for acceleration.

Is a th400 stronger? Of course so is a th350 and with the aftermarket each go way beyond. I In a moderately powered cruiser the 2004r is hard to beat, especially when you factor in it bolts up to the bop blocks.
 
Well, of course, I think anyone would dispute that the turbo 400 is a stronger transmission than a 350. But how about the idea that the nomenclature of a 400 being stronger than a 350 applies to the 700 transmission. That sounds like a wive's tale they passed around in chevy circles while V-6s were blowing their doors off. LOL! As far as replacing a turbo 400 with a 700, that would be a step up, but I'd opt for a 200 first. :)
 
Don't believe what you read on Facebook. That place is genpop. Unwashed masses. Idiots. Most of them can barely tie their shoes.

Here's the downlow on the transmissions:

They all have issues. None of them are perfect. But some critical thinking about the origins of each model can guide your decision.

1) The TH400 was originally released in 1964, based on design work and tooling available in the late 1950s. Heavy parts. Stout.
2) The Th200C was released in 1979. Based on design work and tooling available in the mid 1970s, with the goal being efficiency. Light weight, good fuel economy.
3) The TH200-4R was an evolution of the 200C, with overdrive added.

So here's the deal, the 200 series is far more efficient than the 400. Its design is superior. Where it falls flat is lightweight internal components from the factory, which is a result of the design goals. But all of that can be remedied with stronger aftermarket guts. A more efficient design combined with quality parts leaves you with a superior transmission.

A properly built 200-4R will be superior to a TH400 or Th700. Period. It'll be lighter, more efficient, and stronger. And the ratios are more favorable to our application.

Now, get into the modern units, and you have some better choices, but that comes at added cost and complexity because you're diving into a fully computer-controlled valvebody. I've not dealt with the later model revisions of all of these, so I can't comment on them. But if you are looking to choose between a 400, 700 or 200-4R, a properly built 200-4R is what you want.
 
robert duncan said:
Guy on facebook just told me that the first three numbers on GM transmissions indicates how strong a transmission is. Like th350 to th400, so 700 is stronger than 200. Is that true? Seems chevy guys get all bent out of shape when you tell them that the 200 is a better transmission because all they know is chevy shit. I cited a quote by Lonnie Diers:
Click to expand...
I just can't stand how F*CKING stupid people are. Why doesn't everyone just drop facebook and bankrupt that f*cking company? Make it go where myspace went.
 
64691325_2333432190318637_6393032942918041600_n.jpg
 
I thought the idea the higher the number indicated a transmission's strength was silly. So, where exactly does 4L60 fit in? :D He also fell right into it when he said they use 700s in trucks and pull heavy loads. Did he read Lonnie's quote? He described himself as being a "GM" transmission builder for 25 years and when I accused him of just being another chevy guy, he tells me he has only Pontiacs, so I had to point out that Pontiacs have been chevys for a long, long, time. Maybe he didn't know? So far, he hasn't come back. LOL!
 
In GM terms the 4l60 is the 700r4. The 4L60e is the computer controlled version of the 700r4 in 1993. This got some more upgrades and became the 4L65e and 4L70e in later yrs.
 
robert duncan said:
I thought the idea the higher the number indicated a transmission's strength was silly. So, where exactly does 4L60 fit in? :D He also fell right into it when he said they use 700s in trucks and pull heavy loads. Did he read Lonnie's quote? He described himself as being a "GM" transmission builder for 25 years and when I accused him of just being another chevy guy, he tells me he has only Pontiacs, so I had to point out that Pontiacs have been chevys for a long, long, time. Maybe he didn't know? So far, he hasn't come back. LOL!
Click to expand...
An internet argument with an idiot is a loosing proposition.
 
TexasT said:
In GM terms the 4l60 is the 700r4. The 4L60e is the computer controlled version of the 700r4 in 1993. This got some more upgrades and became the 4L65e and 4L70e in later yrs.
Click to expand...

Yeah, not knowing much about chevy stuff, I forgot that factoid. So, if one wanted to install a 700 in an older car, installing the computer controlled 4L60 just complicates matters, right?
 
robert duncan said:
Yes! We should never give our opinion. Someone's feeling could be hurt, especially if they lose.
Click to expand...
My initial response was directed towards the person who said the 700 is stronger.

Opinions are fine, but it looks like you shared some solid info from a great transmission builder, yet the person on the other end of the internet insists you are wrong? That's the idiot, and that's who my response was directed to.
 
robert duncan said:
Yeah, not knowing much about chevy stuff, I forgot that factoid. So, if one wanted to install a 700 in an older car, installing the computer controlled 4L60 just complicates matters, right?
Click to expand...

It adds complexity and cost, yes. And I've heard the 4L60 has a known issue with 3rd exploding. I have a good friend that autocross a wicked Malibu with a 383 and a 4L60, and he has an "Autocross Mode" switch. It completely locks out upshifts past second specifically to protect from an accidental upshift to 3rd on course. GM lightened that part of the assembly for fuel economy.
 
On a side note Robert...i know you were asking about 200 and 700 but...if your looking for strength ...The 4L80E transmission family is the strongest GM overdrive transmission ever produced and installed in a standard passenger vehicle platform, and is arguably the strongest overdrive transmission produced by any of the big three ...just sayin..
 
grass doctor said:
On a side note Robert...i know you were asking about 200 and 700 but...if your looking for strength ...The 4L80E transmission family is the strongest GM overdrive transmission ever produced and installed in a standard passenger vehicle platform, and is arguably the strongest overdrive transmission produced by any of the big three ...just sayin..
Click to expand...

The ZF 8HP is the king of the hill right now. It's in the Hellcat, Demon, all of BMW and Mercede's big power sedans, Ram truck, Bentley, big list. I don't know how hard it would be to mate to a GM mill, but anything's possible with an adapter plate and a drill press. Dialing in a calibration would be an adventure.
 
Turbo6inKY said:
The ZF 8HP is the king of the hill right now. It's in the Hellcat, Demon, all of BMW and Mercede's big power sedans, Ram truck, Bentley, big list. I don't know how hard it would be to mate to a GM mill, but anything's possible with an adapter plate and a drill press. Dialing in a calibration would be an adventure.
Click to expand...
wonder how my 48RE...stands in the mix.,.. been wanting to get a suncoast one for years ..but havent had the need...
 
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