1978 231 turbo 6 build
- Thread starter techg8
- Start date
I am not sure when I picked up all this stuff. Over time at the swaps and on ebay I guess. I hope some of it works.
Today I took a look at the drivers side 78 exhaust manifold to clean it up, and found it has a big ole crack by the center bolt, progressing to the top of the manifold.
Previously I have had "some" success welding cast iron by preheating it real hot, then doing successive tack welds to stitch the cracks closed.
On this 78 manifold, the cast iron is in such poor condition that I cant get the weld to take. I am just digging deeped and deeper into the iron. You can see I got it to work near the top of the manifold but as I near the center and the bolt hole it keeps blowing out. Any suggestions on closing this crack up? Brazing? JBweld (lol)? Take it to a pro? I dont want to ruin it.
My backup plan is this:
On the oddfire 225 I had used a 1983 231 (na) drivers side exh manifold mismatched with the low port heads. I had to weld and grind some material around the lower section of the ports to get a good gasket seal, and the ports did not match up but it worked. You can see in the pic that I need to port match the manifold, but once thats done, it is a solid piece. In the absence of a way to repair the 78 manifold I will use the 83.
In this pic the 78 is up top and the 83 is below.
Today I took a look at the drivers side 78 exhaust manifold to clean it up, and found it has a big ole crack by the center bolt, progressing to the top of the manifold.
Previously I have had "some" success welding cast iron by preheating it real hot, then doing successive tack welds to stitch the cracks closed.
On this 78 manifold, the cast iron is in such poor condition that I cant get the weld to take. I am just digging deeped and deeper into the iron. You can see I got it to work near the top of the manifold but as I near the center and the bolt hole it keeps blowing out. Any suggestions on closing this crack up? Brazing? JBweld (lol)? Take it to a pro? I dont want to ruin it.
My backup plan is this:
On the oddfire 225 I had used a 1983 231 (na) drivers side exh manifold mismatched with the low port heads. I had to weld and grind some material around the lower section of the ports to get a good gasket seal, and the ports did not match up but it worked. You can see in the pic that I need to port match the manifold, but once thats done, it is a solid piece. In the absence of a way to repair the 78 manifold I will use the 83.
In this pic the 78 is up top and the 83 is below.
If you're going to try and weld cast iron you need some nickle rods for an arc welder. The part needs to be brought to a consistent cherry red before welding and then put back in to heat after welding. Then the temp needs to be brought down slowly so it won't crack again. One of the other guys may have 1 that they're willing to get rid of so I'd try that route.
If you're going to try and weld cast iron you need some nickle rods for an arc welder. The part needs to be brought to a consistent cherry red before welding and then put back in to heat after welding. Then the temp needs to be brought down slowly so it won't crack again. One of the other guys may have 1 that they're willing to get rid of so I'd try that route.
Thanks for the tips.
Its interesting though, the 83 cast manifold accepted welding much more readily than the 78. When I port matched the 83 I had to build up the sides a little for better gasket seal. dont know how long it will last, but maybe long enough til I get the 78 manifold fixed or a donor.
I got the exhaust manifolds, motor mounts and starter installed toady, the dipstick and thermostat too
After I put the harmonic balancer on the crank I realized that I had forgotten - the crank and water pump pulleys were COMPLETELY rotted out on t his engine. I will have to replace them - either I will use the set off the oddfire 225 or I will ebay a set.
I disassembled and reconditioned both the Delcotron alternator and the HEI distributor. Neither was too problematic. Although the vacuum advance canister is busted. I will need to get a replacement.
I am in the process of cleaning up the miscellaneous sensors - temp, knock, vacuum/boost switches etc. I hope they work. I saw the knock sensor listing at like $80 if I can even find one.
I think I am at the point where I should remove the 350 from the Cutlass and install the V6 frame pads, then drop this thing in.
After I put the harmonic balancer on the crank I realized that I had forgotten - the crank and water pump pulleys were COMPLETELY rotted out on t his engine. I will have to replace them - either I will use the set off the oddfire 225 or I will ebay a set.
I disassembled and reconditioned both the Delcotron alternator and the HEI distributor. Neither was too problematic. Although the vacuum advance canister is busted. I will need to get a replacement.
I am in the process of cleaning up the miscellaneous sensors - temp, knock, vacuum/boost switches etc. I hope they work. I saw the knock sensor listing at like $80 if I can even find one.
I think I am at the point where I should remove the 350 from the Cutlass and install the V6 frame pads, then drop this thing in.
roger that. I used the original even fire balancer. this engine has the split throw crank - evenfire.
I just need the pulleys off the oddfire.
I had thought I would use the pulleys off the Oddfire V6 but its got a different water pump snout - shorter.
and yes I then tried the pulleys from the 350 but it was the same result. the shorter water pump makes for a shallower wp pulley that misaligns with the crank pulley when used on the longer V6 231 water pump. Thanks for the idea though.
I am going to use the power steering setup from the cutlass
A non AC alternator bracket set from the 350 to minimize bracket clutter on the pass side
The alternator from the cutlass (internally regulated) - its a shame cause the 78 alt cleaned up nicely, I even had the fan and pulley plated.
I did install a 2400 stall B&M torque converter in the TH350 when the engine was out.
and yes I then tried the pulleys from the 350 but it was the same result. the shorter water pump makes for a shallower wp pulley that misaligns with the crank pulley when used on the longer V6 231 water pump. Thanks for the idea though.
I am going to use the power steering setup from the cutlass
A non AC alternator bracket set from the 350 to minimize bracket clutter on the pass side
The alternator from the cutlass (internally regulated) - its a shame cause the 78 alt cleaned up nicely, I even had the fan and pulley plated.
I did install a 2400 stall B&M torque converter in the TH350 when the engine was out.
I have eliminated the broken EFE-EGR switch (didnt need it anyhow since I am not using EGR or EFE), and it leaves me with a PEC valve vacuum line question or two...
I have a 3 port PEC valve.
It screws into the intake manifold so thats where it senses the boost and vacuum,
and I know which port should go to the power piston on the carb.
the other ports appear to be EFE vent ports. I am trying to decide whether to cap them or leave them open.
The 78 service manual shows One port is connected only to the back of the carb. So I figured I would just cap that one.
The other port is teed into a series of hoses that connect the vapor can and carb vents to the EFE valve, which in turn is connected to ported vacuum at the carb baseplate. There is a one way check valve between the EFE valve and the vents etc ,
Does this PEC valve have two separate circuits? one for the power piston, and one for the EFE stuff? Or are they somehow combined, where I still need the ported vacuum signal to the PEC valve for it to function correctly, even though I have eliminated the EFE?
thanks for any insight.
I have a 3 port PEC valve.
It screws into the intake manifold so thats where it senses the boost and vacuum,
and I know which port should go to the power piston on the carb.
the other ports appear to be EFE vent ports. I am trying to decide whether to cap them or leave them open.
The 78 service manual shows One port is connected only to the back of the carb. So I figured I would just cap that one.
The other port is teed into a series of hoses that connect the vapor can and carb vents to the EFE valve, which in turn is connected to ported vacuum at the carb baseplate. There is a one way check valve between the EFE valve and the vents etc ,
Does this PEC valve have two separate circuits? one for the power piston, and one for the EFE stuff? Or are they somehow combined, where I still need the ported vacuum signal to the PEC valve for it to function correctly, even though I have eliminated the EFE?
thanks for any insight.
b4black
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
The water pump pulley on my '82 is 2 5/8" from front to back. Three groves, but the smallest in front is not used.
Looks just like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-3-GROVE-WATER-PUMP-PULLEY-3-8-LITER-G-BODY-MONTE-CARLO-CUTLASS-REGAL-/181199711266?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make:Buick&hash=item2a30582c22&vxp=mtr
I would bet some SBC pulleys would interchange with it. Local parts store might have chrome pulleys in stock
Looks just like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-3-GROVE-WATER-PUMP-PULLEY-3-8-LITER-G-BODY-MONTE-CARLO-CUTLASS-REGAL-/181199711266?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make:Buick&hash=item2a30582c22&vxp=mtr
I would bet some SBC pulleys would interchange with it. Local parts store might have chrome pulleys in stock
Last edited:
Well I got a set of pulleys and put the front of the engine on.
I routed the fuel line inside the power steering bracket - I had to make two tries at getting that right.
Tried yesterday to start it, but ran into a couple issues that need working thru. A seeping water neck, poor engine ground and no spark.
I will update with some pics in a bit...
I routed the fuel line inside the power steering bracket - I had to make two tries at getting that right.
Tried yesterday to start it, but ran into a couple issues that need working thru. A seeping water neck, poor engine ground and no spark.
I will update with some pics in a bit...
I changed out the stamped steel 1978 waterneck to a cast aluminum one and used a new gasket with thin silicone sealer on it to stop the seeping.
The distributor is being a little more difficult to fix. The 5 pin ignition module was expensive, and the pickup coil I need is hard to get. I should have it in a few days though.
I am not going to have the car ready for the club meet on Sunday though.
pics soon. Its coming together.
The distributor is being a little more difficult to fix. The 5 pin ignition module was expensive, and the pickup coil I need is hard to get. I should have it in a few days though.
I am not going to have the car ready for the club meet on Sunday though.
pics soon. Its coming together.
Thanks! I like its look too. I wish I took a pic of it when I got it so you could see just how bad it looked.....mud and dirt all over it, grease grime etc. looked like it spent 5 years in a ditch. Like I said before though, whoever pulled it from its vehicle knew what he was about, because he got all the little things that make the engine work....even down to the vacuum line Ts and Ys
That big oil fill vent on the drivers side is having trouble sealing to the valvecover though. I may need to silicone its gasket so it wont leak. I think the v/c is warped a little where they meet. the snout may have taken a hit at some point in its life.
Also its supposed to have some sort of rubber cap on the end of it. I think I have a HELP accessories rubber oil fill cap somewhere that might fit....
This engine swap got me excited about the 83 Cutlass again. I am looking forward to "playing" with this turbo setup to see what it can do.
I installed an A pillar module with an Autometer boost/vacuum gage today.
That big oil fill vent on the drivers side is having trouble sealing to the valvecover though. I may need to silicone its gasket so it wont leak. I think the v/c is warped a little where they meet. the snout may have taken a hit at some point in its life.
Also its supposed to have some sort of rubber cap on the end of it. I think I have a HELP accessories rubber oil fill cap somewhere that might fit....
This engine swap got me excited about the 83 Cutlass again. I am looking forward to "playing" with this turbo setup to see what it can do.
I installed an A pillar module with an Autometer boost/vacuum gage today.
I got the HEI sparking today on the Bench.
Turns out the old module, pickup and coil were all good. So now I have a set of new spares, which doesnt hurt.
What I missed was that the HEI wont spark without the EST hooked up, OR if youre omitting the EST module, the 2socket and 4pin jumpered on the round EST connector off the Distributor.
Anyhow I finally figured it out and put all the old electronics back in the HEI.
I should be able to fire the engine up in the coming days!
Turns out the old module, pickup and coil were all good. So now I have a set of new spares, which doesnt hurt.
What I missed was that the HEI wont spark without the EST hooked up, OR if youre omitting the EST module, the 2socket and 4pin jumpered on the round EST connector off the Distributor.
Anyhow I finally figured it out and put all the old electronics back in the HEI.
I should be able to fire the engine up in the coming days!
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