PTC 9.5" NL cruise videos ATTENTION Rob Zombie

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bison

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There seems to be a lot of what could be described as controversy as to what a PTC 9.5" converter "drives" like in every day driving. Some have reported that it's not possible to have a converter that will spool a turbo and couple a high cylinder pressure application and still provide adequate coupling at light cruise including long persistent inclines. The following videos are of me cruising the car with a 200-4R and 27.3" measured tire that was recently run at LVD with the MFS 6265 to and from the drag strip. It's approximately a 200 mile round trip. This is a low 10 sec turbo regal cruising along the Mass pike up through the Berkshires. Many long steady climbs. It's actually about a half hr of steady incline with very little level ground to the highest elevation. The converter is an 18 blade 9.5" and the speed was 60-70mph as I cruised to and from the drag strip with the car loaded with all my tools and other accessories. Fuel economy was approximately 16-17mpg including the racing and hits I did as I dialed in the tune. Cruise a/f was 15.0-15.2:1. These converters have been 2 seconds faster than I ran with this one. Have a nice day.


This ones especially for you Rob Zombie:

http://youtu.be/zvZz9QVVBrw
http://youtu.be/ntXFb_bGxTs



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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My 18 blade drove great, and my engine makes enough torque at 0psi to stall to 3800. I switched to a 20 blade, and don't really notice a difference while driving. I drove my car to Buschur's dyno tune, 50 miles round trip with 3.73 gears, 20 blade PTC, TH400, on E85, and used 3.5 gallons, 14.5mpg. Not bad for an 8 sec car IMO.
 
bison said:
There seems to be a lot of what could be described as controversy as to what a PTC 9.5" converter "drives" like in every day driving. Some have reported that it's not possible to have a converter that will spool a turbo and couple a high cylinder pressure application and still provide adequate coupling at light cruise including long persistent inclines. The following videos are of me cruising the car with a 200-4R and 27.3" measured tire that was recently run at LVD with the MFS 6265 to and from the drag strip. It's approximately a 200 mile round trip. This is a low 10 sec turbo regal cruising along the Mass pike up through the Berkshires. Many long steady climbs. It's actually about a half hr of steady incline with very little level ground to the highest elevation. The converter is an 18 blade 9.5" and the speed was 60-70mph as I cruised to and from the drag strip with the car loaded with all my tools and other accessories. Fuel economy was approximately 16-17mpg including the racing and hits I did as I dialed in the tune. Cruise a/f was 15.0-15.2:1. These converters have been 2 seconds faster than I ran with this one. Have a nice day.


This ones especially for you Rob Zombie:

http://youtu.be/zvZz9QVVBrw
http://youtu.be/ntXFb_bGxTs



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
 
dpasadena said:
Do you monitor fluid temp?
Click to expand...
Not in this car. It's the same fluid that's been in there for 5 years though. Many quarter passes and thousands of miles. I'm sure it's probably seen 240* a few times



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bison said:
Not in this car. It's the same fluid that's been in there for 5 years though. Many quarter passes and thousands of miles.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Well I would guess its not getting too hot on the extended inclines. I want a nlu but fear hot fluid temps especially in the summer while on long inclines. I drive this car a lot.
 
Those hills on the way to LVD are killer if you are towing, right Turbobitt? I run a PTC nlu in the trans Bison built for me and never have any temp issues. I run just a B&M trans cooler with fan, not running thru the radiator cooler at all. Now my chrome laden show boat GN is no where near as quick as Bison's but I do drive a lot on the street without any issues. Did a trip to Mystic CT a few weeks ago and got stuck in bumper to bumper Sunday traffic on I-95 just about the whole way back home and car didn't miss a beat.
 
TR Custom Parts said:
Those hills on the way to LVD are killer if you are towing, right Turbobitt? I run a PTC nlu in the trans Bison built for me and never have any temp issues. I run just a B&M trans cooler with fan, not running thru the radiator cooler at all. Now my chrome laden show boat GN is no where near as quick as Bison's but I do drive a lot on the street without any issues. Did a trip to Mystic CT a few weeks ago and got stuck in bumper to bumper Sunday traffic on I-95 just about the whole way back home and car didn't miss a beat.
Click to expand...
Ya, my tow vehicle was really struggling up those hills.
AG.
 
dpasadena said:
Well I would guess its not getting too hot on the extended inclines. I want a nlu but fear hot fluid temps especially in the summer while on long inclines. I drive this car a lot.
Click to expand...
Hey Dave, I have been doing some transmission temperature monitoring with my new PTC 9.5" NL over the past few weekends here in the Houston heat. I drove about 100 highway miles at 70 mph with the ac on and the trans temperature never got above 210F. This was on flat road on a 90F degree day. The car itself was running a little warm (190F) due to a large front mount IC and lack of proper radiator boxing (I think most of my air was going through the grill and straight down the front of the IC). I have an aluminum radiator with the dual fan setup with the trans fluid running through the radiator first and then through a B&M cooler. B&M cooler has no fan and I currently have it mounted in a way that it gets little air flow but I am planning to put a fan on it soon. I think having the auxiliary trans cooler is a good idea whether you run a lock or a non lock converter IMO. I did not have my laptop with me so I don't have any idea what my cruise RPM's were but they did not seem high. I love the PTC converter compared to the lock up that I had. Drives way better IMO.
 
woos great video. and flying thanks for the data. is 210 high for trans mission temp?
 
psycho6cyl said:
woos great video. and flying thanks for the data. is 210 high for trans mission temp?
Click to expand...
210 is not that bad. The old school B&M trans temp gauge had yellow starting at 220 and red at 260. I think ideal is 175 to 200 or so. I would like to see mine stay under 200 ( and it will when I put a fan on my auxiliary cooler) but that is just my preference.
 
psycho6cyl said:
woos great video. and flying thanks for the data. is 210 high for trans mission temp?
Click to expand...
For long periods of time yes it is too high. Ideal would be 160s but in the real world that's a hard number to hit. Unfortunately with a spragless converter trans temps will be affected and tend to be higher in hiway driving situations. This is not an opinion, it is a fact. A true street converter should have a sprag when possible. Its makes cooling the transmission much easier. Bottom line is keeping the temps in check. If you can do that IMO it does not matter what converter you run. I personally run a diode in mine. For no other reason than transmission temp. The spragless I just could not keep under 210-220 deg.
 
quickt said:
For long periods of time yes it is too high. Ideal would be 160s but in the real world that's a hard number to hit. Unfortunately with a spragless converter trans temps will be affected and tend to be higher in hiway driving situations. This is not an opinion, it is a fact. A true street converter should have a sprag when possible. Its makes cooling the transmission much easier. Bottom line is keeping the temps in check. If you can do that IMO it does not matter what converter you run. I personally run a diode in mine. For no other reason than transmission temp. The spragless I just could not keep under 210-220 deg.
Click to expand...
+1 Spragless converters will run at least 30 degrees higher trans temps.
 
Spragless simply means there is no sprag or clutch assembly in the stator. The sprag is the most likely failure point in a performance converter which is why I prefer to build them spragless. If a customer tells me they intend to do alot of highway driving I ask a few extra questions to determine if your better off with a sprag and will install one if its preferred.. Bison doesn't have one but there are others who do. I can and have installed sprags in the 9.5's and 10" converters..

The need for a sprag also has alot to do with the design of the converter. There are several ways to achieve a stall speed. If the method chosen to achieve the desired stall speed doesn't couple well at cruise then the heat will be higher in that particular design.





Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app
 
"The sprag holds the stator in place as the converter multiplies torque. This happens as the converter turbine (finned housing splined to the input shaft in front of the stator) gains rpm and catches up to near the speed of the converter impeller/pump (shell of the converter and fins attached to the rear half of the housing, behind the stator). Once the speeds near equalization, the fluid flow path actually changes inside the converter, and the sprag now allows the stator to freewheel with the fluid flow allowing a less restricted fluid path. In a spragless converter, the stator is always held in place, and its slight restriction to the fluid flow path change will cause more heat to be generated, and thus a less efficient street converter (as compared to the same converter but with a sprag) "

PTC does not have the power to change the laws of physics with the design of their torque converter. Its one or the other not both.

However I ran a 17 blade converter for 2 years and have nothing bad to say about PTC or Dusty. Still recommend customers to Dusty when they want the NL converter and their combo is 400 or out of my comfort zone. I will continue to do so. My 17/0 PTC converter performed flawless other than transmission temperature. I no longer use the PTC as I wanted a Diode or Sprag and at the time it was not an option for the Nissan core they use. I understand from customers that had temp problems they now have a sprag option.

I now run a billet 17/3 with a diode that performs exactly as my PTC did without the temperature and I do not need to brutalize the car to launch it. They both slipped in the 4-6% range. They both cruise like a lock up IMO. Big difference My Transmission Temps dropped form 210-220+ too 170-180 on hot Carolina day.

I have been avoiding threads like these for last few years. As a builder and a business that warranty's their work I was surprised at the misinformation that is handed out on this board. Did not post this to start a flame or discredit anyone and will not participate in a pissing contest. If that's what it turns into have at it, I will be glad to exit.
 
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Lonnie. I'm not sure who told you the sprag wasn't an option, it's been an option for at least 10 years. It's just not something we typically use unless someone needs it.

As for the design. Certain designs will run hotter than others when both are spragless. It has to do with the combination of stator design and fin angles used. You can achieve a 3000 stall speed by using several combinations of stator design and pump angle. However one method will make more heat than the method I chose when both converters are spragless. This is is why some manufacturers think you can not build a street converter spragless, because the method they choose to achieve a stall speed creates more heat at cruise. Sure a spragless converter will make more heat than a sprag but there's a difference in excessive heat vs more heat. Take 2 converters, both spragless. Design A may run 15-20 degrees hotter while design B may run 40 degrees hotter than a sprag converter.


Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app
 
Dusty Bradford said:
Sure a spragless converter will make more heat than a sprag but there's a difference in excessive heat vs more heat. Take 2 converters, both spragless. Design A may run 15-20 degrees hotter while design B may run 40 degrees hotter than a sprag converter.
Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app
Click to expand...


Agreed!!!!!

Last summer I called PTC and Lane told me was not an option. I think that was who it was. Since then I know at least 3 who have sprags. Called the wrong peeps.
 
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