What would you take, built stage 2 short block or have your stock short block rebuilt? When there is only 2K in price difference. Even though I never plan on turning my car into a strip car. It will still have to have AC, I just bought a new compressor and condenser. I'd probably only stick a 70mm turbo on it.
Stage 2 short block vs built stock short block.
- Thread starter MCH86GN
- Start date
GNBRETT
Pelennor Fields
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2004
$2k? think again
750H.P.V6
Brutal 6 Racing
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2001
Brett,
All things considered if the build is the same quality as far as crank, rods, cam, heads etc. The price difference is probably less than $2k. Prepping a stock block with a girdle and or caps isn't cheap. Hell, there are TSM guy's that probably have more in their stock block than what a Stage II block would cost.
Neal
GNBRETT
Pelennor Fields
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2004
block alone is $2000 more and thats if its NOT a TA block. then ur talking $4000 more just for the block. billet crank for TA block $3500. if building a SII motor was only $2k more then building a 109 then everyone would be doing it. there not.
and comparing TSM guys to a standard SII build is hardly an accurate comparison. how much does a TSO racer have into his SII or TA motor?
750H.P.V6
Brutal 6 Racing
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2001
Brett,
You can buy a decent Stage II block for $2k. We didn't touch on TA blocks in this thread from what I can tell. If you use the same crank, rods, heads, cam, intake, SFI flex plate and balancer etc. then the only additional cost is the block itself. Also there is additional machining to install a girdle and or caps on a stock block that you wouldn't have with a Stage II block because they come with steel caps and don't need a girdle. What did I miss? If you're comparing rebuilding a stock engine with forged pistons and a 3 angle valve job to building a high dollar motor with all the good parts it's not an apples to apples comparison.
Neal
You can buy a decent Stage II block for $2k. We didn't touch on TA blocks in this thread from what I can tell. If you use the same crank, rods, heads, cam, intake, SFI flex plate and balancer etc. then the only additional cost is the block itself. Also there is additional machining to install a girdle and or caps on a stock block that you wouldn't have with a Stage II block because they come with steel caps and don't need a girdle. What did I miss? If you're comparing rebuilding a stock engine with forged pistons and a 3 angle valve job to building a high dollar motor with all the good parts it's not an apples to apples comparison.
Neal
Funny thing... your right on the money here, my tune was bang on and I simply lifted the head at 28 PSI with pump gas and alky. the only fix is GN1 heads and head clamps.
There are a of racers over 27psi without lifting the heads. Head clamps do little to help the intake side of an iron headed application. If they lifted you likely had some abnormal combustion going on there. Back to the main topic for the op. If you attempt to assemble or pay someone a lot of $ to assemble an on center stage 2 you will find out very quick that just about every component will need to be made to fit. Just about nothing will bolt up or in free of alteration. Drop a factory timing cover on a stg 2 on center and take a close look. You will see a lot of problems. If you don't you better look again. Now think about what it's going to take to oil it and get all the accessories lined up. There are so many things that need to be done time could be a problem too unless you are patient and dedicated enough. If you were paying someone that's been through it plan on another $2-3k just for the amount of running around and down time due to obtaining parts and machining them so they work. This is above and beyond the cost of the shortblock.
I didn't say whole motor, I said short block. My buddy just had his 109 rebuilt, it was at least 5k. I can buy an on center stage 2 for $7k. So you think again before running your big mouth w/o knowing the facts jerk off!
GNBRETT
Pelennor Fields
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2004
who said the whole motor? you stated...."What would you take, built stage 2 short block or have your stock short block rebuilt". you said a STOCK short block vs. a built stage 2 short block. maybe you should re-read what u wrote then jerk off.
it aint a $2k difference. stock pistons, rods, crank, etc... for a STOCK rebuild is not what is required for a SII short block build.
GNBRETT
Pelennor Fields
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2004
u didnt miss anything. he said STOCK short block rebuilt vs. a BUILT stage motor. are u gonna take ur STOCK parts for a 109 and put them in a stage motor? where did he say BUILT 109 short block to be installed in a SII block?
forcefed3.8's
Buckeye Bullet
- Joined
- May 26, 2002
You can run a China crank, K1 rods, and pretty standard pistons with a 3.8 Stage 1 or 2. With a 4.1, pistons will be more. With an on center, I have $100 in spacers for the cam and crank. Now the oiling system adds some $ with an on center. Just because you have a stage block, it doesn't mean you have to use top $ parts. The China forged cranks and K1 rods will support more power than most will make. It is just nice to have the extra head studs and the stronger block. If you buy an off center stage block for $2000 to $2500, and use the China forged parts like most are using in the 109's the cost difference isn't bad. You will have $1000 in having a 109 girdled. If you do caps and girdle (waste of $), you will have around $2000 in the block not counting buying a block.
I bought a complete stage 2 on center circle track engine intake to pan. It was fresh, never run. I kept the new BMS crank, block, heads, Jessel rockers, intake, dry sump set up, pistons (because they are worth nothing). I sold the rods and front cover. I have around $3000 in the block and crank. I decided to run $1300 Crower rods instead of K1's, and spec pistons to handle 1200hp ($1400). I am using a stock front cover with a Duttweiler pump cover with external filter and lines ($500). I had to buy a sheetmetal oil pan with wet sump ($150 used circle track). I did alot of the assembly and custom fitting work myself, so that saved alot of money. Also buying the T&D rockers for GN1 14 bolt heads is expensive. I still have atleast $1500 to $1800 worth of parts left from the Stage 2 NA engine I could sell.
If you get into a Stage block cheap, it is worth it. Going off center is way cheaper. (stock intake can be used, stock oiling system, narrow journal, connecting rods are cheaper.) If planning to make average 109 build capable power, the China parts are fine. Most people think Stage 2 and think 1000hp+.
I bought a complete stage 2 on center circle track engine intake to pan. It was fresh, never run. I kept the new BMS crank, block, heads, Jessel rockers, intake, dry sump set up, pistons (because they are worth nothing). I sold the rods and front cover. I have around $3000 in the block and crank. I decided to run $1300 Crower rods instead of K1's, and spec pistons to handle 1200hp ($1400). I am using a stock front cover with a Duttweiler pump cover with external filter and lines ($500). I had to buy a sheetmetal oil pan with wet sump ($150 used circle track). I did alot of the assembly and custom fitting work myself, so that saved alot of money. Also buying the T&D rockers for GN1 14 bolt heads is expensive. I still have atleast $1500 to $1800 worth of parts left from the Stage 2 NA engine I could sell.
If you get into a Stage block cheap, it is worth it. Going off center is way cheaper. (stock intake can be used, stock oiling system, narrow journal, connecting rods are cheaper.) If planning to make average 109 build capable power, the China parts are fine. Most people think Stage 2 and think 1000hp+.
Milling .120 off isnt a good idea and there are other issues with it which will be found out when you fire it up and it leaks like sieve
tom robison
ALL UP IN THEM GUTZ
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2004
Why is it not a good Idea and what other issues?
750H.P.V6
Brutal 6 Racing
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2001