New motor with bottom end noise

I do not know what Stagemonster told Weber, I don't know what Weber told Stagemonster, but I saw the bearings myself. #4 rod bearing is trashed. Every top rod bearing is shiney. There is another rod bearing, not sure which one that is starting to show copper. The thrust bearing is well on its way, all copper.
There are alot of Buicks in my area including mine with Weber built engines, with no porblems, and they get beat on.
 
like i previously stated i feel no one is really at fault...just sometimes things happen. They just weren't willing to man up on backing their work. And they told us the thrust bearing was fine. We asked but it didn't look right. Regardless with no boost and only 38 miles on the motor do you feel those bearings should look that way if there was proper oil amount in the motor and the engine was primed properly.
 
Sorry to hear that my friend.
S*** happens, but my business is earned by how it is cleaned up.

In my case, the shop assembled the sort block and I did the rest (Front cover, oil pan. pick-up tube , heards, cam, etc). :cool:
The shop turned my motor back around in about a week, and took care of "it". For THAT reason, I would not shy away from them and they have earned my business.
They know the motor was barely run because the rings still had the sharp edges on it (They told me).
I too wanted to be present when they tore it down, but that did not happen. Thanks GOD it turned out OK for me.
Building a “good motor” does not necessarily “earn” my business, but making things right does for me.
 
Good question. Hope you dont say the 4 letter word starting with K***

Probably not the cause of failure in the this engine, but I was just curious.

Do you think the failed rod could have been installed backwards? I just overhauled a SBC and the shop hung the pistons on the rods backwards. The piston arrows did not all point to the front of the engine. I'm glad I did not assume they were right.
 
Sure the wrist pins not too tight? Sounds like not proper prelube and or cover and or pump bad.Opinion only
Doc
 
For the record, I am not saying they are at fault. I just feel they were not standing behind their work and their name. And j was dealt with in a less than stellar manner. I will say there are a few turbo buicks at my shop along with some lsx motors that will probably be going elsewhere now.

OK I will put on my flame suit and ask a question. If they are not at fault what exactly do you think they should be doing? If they did something wrong they should work with the customer to resolve it. If they did nothing wrong why should they eat the cost of the repair? If they did their part of the job and did it right shouln't they be done? Am I missing something?
Mike
 
OK I will put on my flame suit and ask a question. If they are not at fault what exactly do you think they should be doing? If they did something wrong they should work with the customer to resolve it. If they did nothing wrong why should they eat the cost of the repair? If they did their part of the job and did it right shouln't they be done? Am I missing something?
Mike

Thats what I was thinking as well??
 
Response

With any engine build, there are many variables involved that can cause premature engine failure. Whether it’s a product defect, or human error, problems can and do happen. When it comes to assigning responsibility for an engine failing, one must first determine the cause of the failure. In this particular case, we did have an opportunity to inspect the components so that we could assess the cause and ultimately help the customer solve the problem.

It is important to note that this was a short block build, with cam and customer supplied front cover installed (after we went through it of coarse), and was shipped as such. When it came to us for inspection, we were provided the cylinder heads and oil pan. The pan had visible signs of excessive amounts of silicone which had squeezed inside the block. Keep in mind we did not install the oil pan. One rod bearing was heavily damaged and the others were shined. The thrust bearing was also worn on the backside from the crankshaft having pressure applied to it during operation. As one can view from the pictures, all of the bearings were shined significantly which is caused by contact with the crankshaft, which is caused by either lack of oil or clearance. With .002” of oil clearance, there is only LACK OF OIL TO BE THE CAUSE. There are several things that must be done properly after an engine leaves our control (especially on a shortblock) to ensure proper lubrication and many other things. Once it is no longer in our possession, we have no ability to ensure that it is done properly to prevent a failure. I wish there was a way for us as engine builders to ensure that everything is done properly after it leaves our facility, but there is not.

We torqued and checked each of the main and rod bearing clearances again after disassembly which resulted in all perfect tolerances. The oil passages were clear and the bearings, crankshaft and components show no sign of contamination.
Because this problem is oil related, we inspected the oil pump drive shaft. There were no signs of any tooling used to prime the pump. However, the customer did note that he did prime the pump with a drill and that he received a reading of approx. 30 PSI ??? Those that have primed and inspected oiling systems do understand that using a drill to prime an oiling system will easily produce 55+ PSI. The customer stated that the running oil pressure was approx. 65#. This is the pressure that should have been observed during priming. This discrepancy leads us to question the priming process again. We inspected the front cover and all was within proper tolerances.

Everything that we observed during the inspection process shows signs that the oil pump either was not primed or was improperly primed. With no visible markings on the oil pump drive shaft, as are commonly produced during the priming process with a drill, we are leaning towards a lack of priming altogether. Keep in mind we have seen people fail to prime oil systems in our many years of professional engine building and the damage produced is eerily similar.

In an attempt to help this customer, we offered to repair the damage at a steeply reduced price. We felt this to be more than fair since the engine was starved of oil and not because of contamination, clearances, or anything else that we have any control over. The customer decided to remove the engine from our shop and was not billed for the disassembly and inspection.

While it is unfortunate that this customer is not satisfied with the outcome, as we are not either, it does highlight some of the problems engine builders face in this industry. Especially when building short blocks, the build leaves the shop and gets placed in the hands of those with varying skill levels. Thankfully most of those that receive our engines are finished, installed and tuned by skilled customers or professionals. Unfortunately some are not. And while we stand behind our builds 110%, we simply can not insure work which should have been performed by the customer and/or their installers and tuners.

I have two kids and teach them to be responsible and accountable. If they make a mistake, they must deal with the consequences. Depending on the situation, I may help them reduce their pain but under no circumstances will I allow them to push the responsibility on to someone else. The lack of this mindset is a growing problem in our society and I hope the members of this board and community can appreciate this. I feel for this customer which is why we offered to help, but I can not stomach paying for someone else’s mistake.



While posted by me (Bill), this response comes directly from Bryan Weber.
 
My question would be was there any bearing protective coating applied during assembly, was any engine oil supplement added for bearing breakin period or was ZDDP friction protection added to help during break in beside it being questionable if customer primed the motor should some of these additives protected the bearings from ending up with this castistrophic situation? when i prime my motors i always put a pressure gauge on the oil pump housing to confirm oil pressure before startup, one of my cars will also have a pre luber to assure oil pressure prior to startup.
 
When i first started building motors (At the tender age of sixteen) i left some oil galley plugs out on accident, primed the motor, or thought i primed the motor and had the same outcome. My bearings looked almost identical to the ones pictured. So i feel more than comfortable having weber racing build my short block. I have done alot of research and heard nothing but great things about them.
 
Third and fourth pic in post #113, is it just me or does it look like the crank throws have some material broke off them? I don't recall mine looking that jagged...
 
tell how he was REALLY treated.... he was not allowed to speak to the owner when he repeatedly asked.. the engine builder ****ed up and didnt want his boss to find out... then when he left you guys threatened him...the victim "dont be bashing us on turbo buick" thats chicken **** bad business. i would have contacted the ohio state attorney general and watched how fast your tune changed. thats the whole problem in all this...not the damage, not the lack of accountability but the total ignorant treatment by non supervisor employees.. its not their job to being treating him that way... the OWNER should have been dealing with him at that point. thats some mickey mouse ****.
 
I have two kids and teach them to be responsible and accountable. If they make a mistake, they must deal with the consequences. Depending on the situation, I may help them reduce their pain but under no circumstances will I allow them to push the responsibility on to someone else. The lack of this mindset is a growing problem in our society and I hope the members of this board and community can appreciate this. I feel for this customer which is why we offered to help, but I can not stomach paying for someone else’s mistake.

.
get off ur soap box....this was about business..you guys made it personal in the way you treated him. so dont pile on by insulting him here making him out to be irresponsible...its got nothing to do with business!! you already got his money and he got a bucket of parts..shame on u!
 
The crank throws definently look damaged to me-maybe the offshore Chinese crank started to come apart causing a vibration destroying the bearings-one theory! Maybe the structural integrity of the crank should be exaimed?
 
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