Take it easy there friend. Just trying to get at the facts here.
Len Freeman, is this how you treat your customers? long.
- Thread starter disco stu
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Take it easy there friend. Just trying to get at the facts here.
This whole thing should have been a minor setback. I have tried to speak things as straight and plain as possible without exaggerating anything. I am not a tranny guy, so I am relaying information from the (second) person that built it. But I hardly think that what I paid for is in it. But thank you for acknowledging that the very least was not even done in your opinion.
whiplash306
Member
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2004
I'm interested to hear your response once the invoice (from KURTZ) is posted....No doubt you are knowledeable on tranny workings and internals, so I'm very curious to hear your thoughts on the assessment of another tranny (professional) guru who is a TOTALLY and COMPLETELY uninvested party in this entire ordeal.....
JDSfastGN
Well-Known Member
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- Jun 16, 2001
I agree, i don't remember saying much else about the tranny, burnt clutches, both direct and OD, stock hard parts and supposedly a stock OD ring gear that is cracked. These are all pretty serious for what it was supposed to be. Yes im sure you have seen much worse, and as i stated earlier I have built just over 10-12 trannys so no i haven't seen everything that can happen, but there were tell-tale signs of mis-used parts like i stated earlier.....
"and the steel that sat on top of the apply ring in the direct drum. The steel had a ring worn into it from the apply ring yet for some reason both sides were burnt and hot spotted.... hmmm."
about the terminology, thats fine, i typed really fast and called a part something else... shoot me.... I don't plan on being an expert witness in threads like these, i just ended up looking at the parts and giving my opinion.
You haven't been to small claims court much, have you? It is the burden of the prosecution to come up with the proof of wrong doing. The judge takes those little papers, such as invoices, very, very seriously. It is the proof that you had any kind of contract with Len at all! The judge is not going to take "your word for it". Good luck guys.Instead of quoting everyone and replying to each individual post, I'll issue a blanket statement.
Without a doubt, I am sure that many of the points you all have made (Otto J, DonWG and scot w.) are valid. However, CSI or not, none of us can be sure the progression of events that would unfold should this ordeal progress to a court case.
And absolutely, facts are strong determinents when substantiating accusations. However, facts (in the form of paperwork or otherwise) are not always available. That's when the discretion and critical thinking ability of a judge (and possibly jury) come in to play....
Further more.....Yes, without a bill of sale from Len stating EXACTLY what parts were used when building his transmission, our case is somewhat hampered. However, it's at that point that the expertise of other tranny builders can, and most likely would, be called in to play in order to substantiate our claim that our $2,500 tranny should have included higher quality parts and that the tranny's construction should have been more solid from the beginning.
Also, "if" (it's a big "if", but it might address some questions) the question is raised doubting that the transmission was initially built by Len in the 1st place, credit card statements of my own and sales records of Len can be called upon for review. What a pain that would be for both parties!!!
All the above takin' into consideration, one still must wonder "why" Len hasn't made even ONE SOLID attempt at contact with either Stu or myself....? He has the option of a phone call, a letter, a private message, an open thread reponse, a second hand message yelled across his shop to his g/f over the phone.......right on down to a text message, and yet NOTHING!
Even more confusing is that the initial interaction between Len, Stu and myself was just as solid and "friendly" as I would expect from any initial honest interaction between buyer and seller. For that reason alone, the question that everyone might have on their mind, above and beyond specifics of the tranny build, is the EXACT question that runs through Stu's and my mind constantly....."Where did all this go wrong?" Geez, if only for that question to be answered.....
AGAIN, both Stu and I sincerely do not want, wish, hope, desire or strive for this all to progress to a court case. Quite honestly, that is why the word "if" has been used so frequently when discussing the possible escalation of all this to such a degree as we are still uncertain what our next course of action will be. It does seem as though it will not be solved any other way except through a judge, be it in our favor or not. Any way we go, we might be out of money and luck as the judge is certainly not guaranteed to rule in our favor. So yeah, while to some it may seem to be in the bag, there are (obviously) others who still realize that this could go either way.
Frustrating indeed........
Who's attacking here?
You're welcome.
I've seen plates burn bad enough to show on the other side. You have to look closer to see if a plate had been rubbing it.
whiplash306
Member
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- Apr 2, 2004
No, I "haven't been to small claims court much", and sincerely hope to maintain that track record. For all I know, you may be correct. I can be as forthcoming as the next guy when I admit that we may not have all that it will take to win a court case. Quite honestly, we never even considered the possibility of anything like this happening, much less with Len Freeman, a renown and very much respected contributor to the entire Buick community. For our assumption in the form of no preface prior to our build request from Len and our lack of concern when the tranny arrived with no invoice, we may be out our $2,500. In that case, as was stated earlier, all we are left with might be an expensive "learning experience".
Im as easy as can be,it does make me mad that most of you are trying to seem like this is the buyers fault for spending $2500 with Len and trusting him that hed get somthing to last AND WHAT HE PAID FOR!!!!SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD CUSTOMER TO ME
Seems to me that the people in the Buick world that should be held to a higher standard,the ones who make there living at this and are supposedly professionals,are NEVER held to a higher standard and its always the customers fault automatically because they dont do this for a living
Doesnt take the worlds smartest man to see the logic behind that is flawed.Some people just cant see the forest because of all the trees.Not the first or last time this will happen in the Buick community though.....
You can calm down now. I think everyone has a better picture of things now. We're just missing Len's input.
I hope this teaches everyone to get 'itemized' invoices.
whiplash306
Member
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2004
That, and a copy of the invoice from KURTZ...I believe that'll shed a LOT of light on "things".....Again Don, I sincerely look fwd to your take on KURTZ's assessment of the tranny by way of his invoice when it is posted.
The only way you could possibly hope for a chance in court would be if Len backed up everything you claimed verbally to the judge about having Len build the trans for a 9 second car and the price that he charged you. Also the warranty deal and the parts that were supposed to be in it. Hmmm. You're going to have a tough time of it.
Who isnt calm??
Better picture of things?Sheesh,took long enough......
Unfortunately, to get that better picture, we had to go through some rough stuff. Everyone survived. Don't worry, be happy.
So what I get from this, is that the tranny had a problem when they got it and that the parts in it were not up to snuff if it was going into a 9 sec. car.
I don't know what the prices are for a bullet proof tranny but even $2,500. sounds on the high side for a stock tranny rebuild.
Even if they got what Len figures is a $2,500 tranny,it still failed and he stopped talking to them. I don't care what his side of the story is but to just ignore them is a sh#tty way to handle a problem in bussiness. I personally think that's as much of the problem here as anything.
This may not hurt his bussiness for the guys that faithful to him but I'm sure somebody who reads this will be looking around before going to him. I would and I have a friend who has one of Len's trannies. He couldn't have been happier with how he was treated.
scot w.
GNSperformance.com
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2005
X2
Forget about the unit having a pressure problem or internal defect, but baised on your observation, what should he have been charged in your opinion?
And even after it has been explained to you numerous times you keep coming in posting "You should have just shipped it even though he no longer took your phone calls and the people answering the phone said he doesn't work there anymore. You still should have just shipped. All would be fine if you would have just shipped it to him. He would have fixed it if you would have just shipped it"
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