you entire post makes no sense. not to knock zddp as i am also a user of it, but we have no idea where richard clark gets this stuff from. I am a strong advocate of brad penn as i have used it with success on hard driven engines.
ZDDP Cheap
- Thread starter jdpolzin
- Start date
you entire post makes no sense. not to knock zddp as i am also a user of it, but we have no idea where richard clark gets this stuff from. I am a strong advocate of brad penn as i have used it with success on hard driven engines.
scot w.
GNSperformance.com
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2005
And another thing he's completely missing is the Oil company's use the text "Racing Oil" to get away from the laws that govern the regular "Conventional" oil's so they can offer ZDDP amounts in excess of the "Laws"...
There is always a way around the law legally and to think Huge oil manufactures like Brad Penn, Royal Purple, Schaeffer, etc would just sit back and watch other manufactures come out with additives that do the same thing that those "Laws" are against is just crazy thinking. They Do offer it, They do have it and they always will....Ask yourself, "Why is it OK to add all that ZDDP to a conventional oil when there are laws that were put in place to remove it"?? And just because there was a law to lower the ZDDP levels in conventional oil doesn't mean it has to be removed from "Racing" oils!! That right there is the loop hole for the oil manufactures Believe it or not!
SW.
Dennis Kirban
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2009
kirban
Backing up slightly...first every single drum of zddp is checked for levels of zddp BEFORE it is mixed in the 4 ounce bottles meaning concentration levels are guaranteed to be as claimed.
keep in mind Richard actually also owns a DNA LAB...How much higher on quality control can you get than that?
With over 2 years of sales under our belt have you heard anywhere any issues with our product?
Do you think companies like Eastwood would continue to sell thousands of bottles every year if they had issues with it?
Truth be told Richard did it for his cars and his cars alone then a decision was made to market the product.
denniskirban@yahoo.com
The above thread is dead on about EPA laws and the government if the oil reads sm no matter how much it sells for zddp ppm runs 600-800 max period.
Choice is yours....
Dennis Kirban
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2009
And another thing he's completely missing is the Oil company's use the text "Racing Oil" to get away from the laws that govern the regular "Conventional" oil's so they can offer ZDDP amounts in excess of the "Laws"...
Ask yourself, "Why is it OK to add all that ZDDP to a conventional oil when there are laws that were put in place to remove it"?? And just because there was a law to lower the ZDDP levels in conventional oil doesn't mean it has to be removed from "Racing" oils!! That right there is the loop hole for the oil manufactures Believe it or not!
SW.
kirban again
You need to read the copy on our 4 ounce bottles "Not intended for OBD II off road industrial agricultural and racing vehicles only.... similar to what is on racing oils..in other words product is geared and designed for older vehicles.
I could see all the skeptism if no big mail order companies and engine builders where not buyers...remember crower-isky-erson buy it use it recommend it.
denniskirban@yahoo.com
You don't know Mr. Clark it sounds like. As pointed out I dought you can find any higher quality of R&D + Q&A in the same type product.
I don't mean this ugly but if someone has a problem with Dennis keep it between you and him and please take it to PM...
I will not however let anyone bash Mr. Richard Clark on this board! Anyone that truly knows him understands why. If anyone doesn't like it, sorry...
i have never bashed Richard once and i dont have a problem with Dennis at all.
my response was directed at turbo6smackdown. it was stated that we cant believe whats in racing oil. i stated that using the same logic, how do we know whats in the zddp bottle? is that considered bashing?
dr_frankenstein
Mad Scientist
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2008
I like to add about a cup of polishing sand to my oil at every change,
helps keep the bearings and all the internals nice and polished. helps reduce detonation as well! try it!
A.j.
helps keep the bearings and all the internals nice and polished. helps reduce detonation as well! try it!
A.j.
scot w.
GNSperformance.com
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2005
This is pretty simple really...
Knowbody bashed Richard, Dennis or there ZDDP product!
Knowbody said the ZDDP product Didn't work!
Knowbody discredits Richard for his accomplishements or his contributions to the Buick comunity!
Dennis however did say that the levels of ZDDP in oils by law is 600-800 ppm and all I did was simply point out that he's Wrong! He came back and admitted that the ZDDP level in Brad Penn oil was higher than he thought! Yep, (1,500 ppm of zddp) just shy of the 1,800 ...
ZDDP is allowed to sell the ZDDP levels they do under the radar of "Racing only" Just like the other oils do.
Bottom line here is ZDDP works and there are oils out there with 1,500 ppm of zddp in "Racing Oils" that will work fine too!!!
SO, Looks like both Dennis and I made our points and this is good information for the owners of there cars to decide on what they feel...
See, That was simple!
Scot W.
Knowbody bashed Richard, Dennis or there ZDDP product!
Knowbody said the ZDDP product Didn't work!
Knowbody discredits Richard for his accomplishements or his contributions to the Buick comunity!
Dennis however did say that the levels of ZDDP in oils by law is 600-800 ppm and all I did was simply point out that he's Wrong! He came back and admitted that the ZDDP level in Brad Penn oil was higher than he thought!
Yep, (1,500 ppm of zddp) just shy of the 1,800 ... ZDDP is allowed to sell the ZDDP levels they do under the radar of "Racing only" Just like the other oils do.
Bottom line here is ZDDP works and there are oils out there with 1,500 ppm of zddp in "Racing Oils" that will work fine too!!!
SO, Looks like both Dennis and I made our points and this is good information for the owners of there cars to decide on what they feel...
See, That was simple!
Scot W.
I apologize if I took it the wrong way...
Sounds like conflict of interest to me. How can owning the lab that does your testing not be a conflict of interest????
Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com
Turbo6Smackdown
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2005
Then how come new cars like the ZR1/GT40/viper don't have a "catless option" for "off road" use only? All ya gotta do is sign the "I will only drive this vehicle on a track, and only for a maximum amount of miles per year." waiver, and you're off, right? How come no shop will risk the "I can't perform any work on your vehicle unless it's cat converter compliant." rule? Isn't there some sort of rule that helps them slip thru the loophole? Well I haven't found one yet.... Why? Noone wants to risk it.
Why did the off road use only, not work with the O2 simulators? And if it's a "racing vehicle" it's going to have a roller anyways lol. There's no money in that. How many "racing vehicles" use setups that demand 1800 ppm zddp "racing oil"?
The "it's legal if it's used in cars that are 'off road use only' " idea makes no sense. You're trying to tell me, that it's a law to protect our cars??? No lol. Are you telling me that "off road use only" cars don't change their oil?? Ok then. So when your off road car changes it's oil, where does it go? To a special "off road use only" oil disposal place, separate from the rest of the world? The entire reason they took the stuff out, was because someone somewhere deemed it was "bad for us"... It makes no difference in what sort of car you put it in. When you're done with it, it's going to have to go somewhere right? If they said no more zddp because of enviromental issues, how is changing the type of car it goes in make any cleaner of an enviroment?
You guys know the piggy back or stand alone programmers out there, for modern day sports cars? (like diablo sport and such) Ask them about how their "for use on off road vehicles only" policy isn't helping them. Yep, you guessed it. There are new laws being written now, because of how those programmers make cars "not good for the enviroment". How they're disabling egr and how the programs make the emissions go up and all this sort of jazz. The new laws are mandating, that all the programs that come with the new stuff, will have to be emissions compliant. (so basically, they're going to be worthless) Yep. The 'off road use only' will only help ya out a little. I'm guessing that the EPA, or some other .gov agency will come down to their factories, (AND the 'racing' oil factories as well) to sample, and ensure that the stuff is indeed compliant. You're telling me that they're not? Again, I would assume that the risk, (just to sell a few bottles of oil to a few people a year) just isn't worth the punishment, and they would just drop the zddp like they were mandated to. Now whether or not they actually reflect that decrease on their lables? That's another story. You guys can base your cars longevity on that. I will not.
Besides, I trust Richard Clarks research and advice ANY time, over some companies CEO, that's purely out just to line his own pockets. Again, it's the integrity thing. Which, from my experience from Mr. Clark, I'd trust what he says, as it's completely and utterly obvious, that he has nothing but the best intentions for our buicks. Rather than some CEO somewhere, that I never spoke to in my life. Sorry for the rant guys, it's just my opinion. Your mileage may vary lol.
Why did the off road use only, not work with the O2 simulators? And if it's a "racing vehicle" it's going to have a roller anyways lol. There's no money in that. How many "racing vehicles" use setups that demand 1800 ppm zddp "racing oil"?
The "it's legal if it's used in cars that are 'off road use only' " idea makes no sense. You're trying to tell me, that it's a law to protect our cars??? No lol. Are you telling me that "off road use only" cars don't change their oil?? Ok then. So when your off road car changes it's oil, where does it go? To a special "off road use only" oil disposal place, separate from the rest of the world? The entire reason they took the stuff out, was because someone somewhere deemed it was "bad for us"... It makes no difference in what sort of car you put it in. When you're done with it, it's going to have to go somewhere right? If they said no more zddp because of enviromental issues, how is changing the type of car it goes in make any cleaner of an enviroment?
You guys know the piggy back or stand alone programmers out there, for modern day sports cars? (like diablo sport and such) Ask them about how their "for use on off road vehicles only" policy isn't helping them. Yep, you guessed it. There are new laws being written now, because of how those programmers make cars "not good for the enviroment". How they're disabling egr and how the programs make the emissions go up and all this sort of jazz. The new laws are mandating, that all the programs that come with the new stuff, will have to be emissions compliant. (so basically, they're going to be worthless) Yep. The 'off road use only' will only help ya out a little. I'm guessing that the EPA, or some other .gov agency will come down to their factories, (AND the 'racing' oil factories as well) to sample, and ensure that the stuff is indeed compliant. You're telling me that they're not? Again, I would assume that the risk, (just to sell a few bottles of oil to a few people a year) just isn't worth the punishment, and they would just drop the zddp like they were mandated to. Now whether or not they actually reflect that decrease on their lables? That's another story. You guys can base your cars longevity on that. I will not.
Besides, I trust Richard Clarks research and advice ANY time, over some companies CEO, that's purely out just to line his own pockets. Again, it's the integrity thing. Which, from my experience from Mr. Clark, I'd trust what he says, as it's completely and utterly obvious, that he has nothing but the best intentions for our buicks. Rather than some CEO somewhere, that I never spoke to in my life. Sorry for the rant guys, it's just my opinion. Your mileage may vary lol.
What this is all about was Dennis selling the ZDDP to us more than a generic supplier selling the ZDDP. Everyone states that we should support the vendors on this board.....so should the vendor support us. After this thread evolved, Dennis lowered his price to equal Eastwood's price. What Dennis should've done is run a special for TB members for the ZDDP but that'll never happen.
I give credit to vendors like Hartline, Precision, Mark Hueffman, Scot W, Bweavy, RJC running specials all the time.
The other part is Dennis keeps bashing other products and that the ZDDP is superior to the other stuff with no backing.
Oh BTW, I've seen the oil analysis report sent from the machine shop I visit between the top oil guys (Valvoline -off road formula, Joe Gibbs Racing, Rotella, Royal Purple, Amsoil, Brad Penn).
The bottom line is a matter of principle.
Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com
SS/GN
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2005
AMEN,why do people buy from corner store shops that don;t know the differance from a Monte Carlo to a GN.
Also why is it Buicks are such a nice car but attrract the cheapest SOB's.Just saying.Kevin
Thanks Nick
Dennis Kirban
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2009
This is pretty simple really...
Knowbody bashed Richard, Dennis or there ZDDP product!
Knowbody said the ZDDP product Didn't work!
Knowbody discredits Richard for his accomplishements or his contributions to the Buick comunity!
Dennis however did say that the levels of ZDDP in oils by law is 600-800 ppm and all I did was simply point out that he's Wrong! He came back and admitted that the ZDDP level in Brad Penn oil was higher than he thought!
ZDDP is allowed to sell the ZDDP levels they do under the radar of "Racing only" Just like the other oils do.
Bottom line here is ZDDP works and there are oils out there with 1,500 ppm of zddp in "Racing Oils" that will work fine too!!!
SO, Looks like both Dennis and I made our points and this is good information for the owners of there cars to decide on what they feel...
See, That was simple!
Scot W.
Kirban
While above is true I like to make one minor clarification concerning the EPA and the 600-800 ppm that you find in todays oil. By todays oil...I am referring to any conventional or snythetic oil that carries the star burst symbol with the SM code.
They have that code (SM) it has just 600-800 ppm of zddp no matter what name brand is on the can, bottle, container, etc whatever.
While Brad Penn oil comes close in ppm of zddp to what was in our cars when it was new and is a choice owners can use, it may not be readily available whereas the oil brand you have always used you can continue to use by using the 4 ounce bottle of zddplus to your SM oil and not have any worries whatsoever of not having sufficent levels of zddp in your oil.
With 7 million plus cars registered prior to 1973 alone....its easy to understand and grasp the fact its a huge market out there enough for every company with a solution to provide a answer that owners prefer. I realize our cars are newer but I don;t have a count as to the cars built between 1973 and say 1990. I am sure the total is probably around 10 million or better as possible customers.
denniskirban@yahoo.com
Dennis Kirban
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2009
Sounds like conflict of interest to me. How can owning the lab that does your testing not be a conflict of interest????
Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com
Unfortunately, you misread the point I was making. I was not inferring that Richard uses his DNA lab to test the concentration levels in each container. Merely stating that besides owning zddplus and actually several other companies he owns a DNA lab meaning if you own a DNA lab you can be pretty confident that you know what is involved in quallty control in your other businesses etc...(In other words he fully understands the value of quality control).
When I approached major companies like Isky Crower etc I used that line about Richard ALSO owning a DNA lab to make a point with them since they never heard of my company nor any of Richards enterprises.....and trust me they tested the product zddplus also. I talked right to the owners of these companies and trust me anyone into marketing knows how tough that can be.
denniskirban@yahoo.com
We have not bashed any of the products that have been mentioned. We have run specials normally we do a group of specials every year prior to Christmas. We usually do an open house once a year which eliminates shipping to those that attend and give special pricing on most items. We have done contests on this forum as well.
We have wholesale pricing on the product that starts 25 bottles and if you contact us direct we can give you that info and all the tech info and testamonials if you are interested. You may not realize when Richard first came out with this product and for a period if probably 3-4 months we sold to the Buick community at practically cost to get it out in the market place. Richard has also given away probably hundreds if not thousands of bottles at various events at both his place and at my 60th birthday event we had a few years back.
deezdad
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2005
I just read this whole thread and burst out in uncontrollable laughter when I got to this post, of course he doesn't test motor oil in his DNA lab..he meant him and not an independent party does the quality control testing...who's policing the police?..as for me Iv'e met Richard had lunch with him and have no doubts about anything he puts his efforts into..we had subway and he bought a sub for his dog, pretty funny..got to drive his gnx back to his shop, too cool...same confidence in Dennis except for maybe the throttle enhancer calibrator and console extender
I have a RJC deep oil pan, which carries 7 to 7 1/2 quarts of oil. I would like to know if one bottle of zddp is enough for that amount of oil?
Thanks,
Marco
This is my new set-up: T-Top 86 Grand Nationals 109 block with weisco forged pistons and 2 billet center main caps, M&A aluminum heads, roller rockers, port match lower intake ,te63 a.r .82, erson 214/214 cam, smc alky injection (95 % etanol), 25.5lbs boost, 94 octane, hooker cat back with dyno max ultra flow muffers, kenne bell headers, 60 lbs injectors, extender alky chip with 23/21 timing, with a gen 2 with a LS1 maf,thdp, mease 24 row IC, PTC 3200 stall 9 1/2 convertor, Ron Custom max boost brake module, MT drag radials (275/60/15) , rjc power plate, rjc boost controller, zeitronix wideband, HR motor mounts, Weld Drag Lites with skinnies up front, electric exhaust, hr rear sway bar, no front sway bar, 90/10 lakewood in the front and 50/50 lakewood shocks in the rear with energy suspension poly bushings all over, boxed rear lower control arms, Big mouth cold air with an AFE air filt
T-Top 86 Grand National 62000 km)
stock long block, stock suspension, 12 inch red stripe convertor (2800stall), te44, smc alk injection (95 % etanol), 25.5lbs boost,( boost spike 28 psi in 1st gear), 94 octane, hooker cat back with dyno max ultra flow muffers, 42 ½ lbs 009 injectors, turbotweak alky chip with 23/21 timing, thdp, mease 24 row IC, Ron Custom max boost brake module, MT drag radials (275/50/15) 3720lbs race weight with driver. (Torque convertor locked only after car shifted in third), rjc power plate, rjc boost controller, zeitronix wideband, HR motor mounts, comp cam 980 valve springs. Weld Drag Lites with skinnies up front, electric exhaust cut-out.
BEST E/T
60FT=1.53
1/8= 7.25
1/4= 11.48
MPH=120.82
BEST 60FT=1.52
I have a gen 2 with an extender chip and LS1 maf, hr rear sway bar, no front sway bar, 90/10 lakewood in the front and 50/50 lakewood shocks in the rear with energy suspension poly bushings all over, boxed rear lower control arms. MT 275/60/15 drag radials. Big mouth cold air with an AFE air filter. The times above were done with out these parts
Thanks,
Marco
This is my new set-up: T-Top 86 Grand Nationals 109 block with weisco forged pistons and 2 billet center main caps, M&A aluminum heads, roller rockers, port match lower intake ,te63 a.r .82, erson 214/214 cam, smc alky injection (95 % etanol), 25.5lbs boost, 94 octane, hooker cat back with dyno max ultra flow muffers, kenne bell headers, 60 lbs injectors, extender alky chip with 23/21 timing, with a gen 2 with a LS1 maf,thdp, mease 24 row IC, PTC 3200 stall 9 1/2 convertor, Ron Custom max boost brake module, MT drag radials (275/60/15) , rjc power plate, rjc boost controller, zeitronix wideband, HR motor mounts, Weld Drag Lites with skinnies up front, electric exhaust, hr rear sway bar, no front sway bar, 90/10 lakewood in the front and 50/50 lakewood shocks in the rear with energy suspension poly bushings all over, boxed rear lower control arms, Big mouth cold air with an AFE air filt
T-Top 86 Grand National 62000 km)
stock long block, stock suspension, 12 inch red stripe convertor (2800stall), te44, smc alk injection (95 % etanol), 25.5lbs boost,( boost spike 28 psi in 1st gear), 94 octane, hooker cat back with dyno max ultra flow muffers, 42 ½ lbs 009 injectors, turbotweak alky chip with 23/21 timing, thdp, mease 24 row IC, Ron Custom max boost brake module, MT drag radials (275/50/15) 3720lbs race weight with driver. (Torque convertor locked only after car shifted in third), rjc power plate, rjc boost controller, zeitronix wideband, HR motor mounts, comp cam 980 valve springs. Weld Drag Lites with skinnies up front, electric exhaust cut-out.
BEST E/T
60FT=1.53
1/8= 7.25
1/4= 11.48
MPH=120.82
BEST 60FT=1.52
I have a gen 2 with an extender chip and LS1 maf, hr rear sway bar, no front sway bar, 90/10 lakewood in the front and 50/50 lakewood shocks in the rear with energy suspension poly bushings all over, boxed rear lower control arms. MT 275/60/15 drag radials. Big mouth cold air with an AFE air filter. The times above were done with out these parts
Just a Six??
OK! Who Farted??
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2003
Thank God I'm not a vendor here cuz your dammed if you do & dammed if you don't!
An Option, thats all ZDDP is to me, is just another option. Thanks!
An Option, thats all ZDDP is to me, is just another option. Thanks!
