Stock GN vs SRT-4???

[SyHopeful]

Originally posted by I eat Z06
I wasnt basing anyting on imagination. I was basing them on facts. The reason 03 WRX's are selling for so cheap is for 04 there is a pretty major makeover on the car. The dealers want the 03's out and the 04's in. If you look around and talk to a salesman they could inform you better than I could. About the alluminum, every panel of the WRX besides the bumper covers, rear 1/4 panels and roof is alluminum. My neighbors neon has horrible paint and a rust hole in her hood. For motors, most motors of the same design will sound relitivaly alike. There are few exceptions (Italian sports cars). Most V style, boxters, and inlines sound similar between different companies. So an inline 4 dodge will sound like an inline honda without the 9,000 red line. Once agian I will state that you will never get recogniton in a neon, no matter how fast it is.

Nick

I'm still waiting for your PROOF on the sub-$20k 03 WRXs. You made the claim, you substantiate it.

I'm waiting for you to explain how the Supra, RX-7, or 3000GT are sport compacts.

You said SUBARUS were aluminum, not just the WRX.

No comment on the open front diff in your WRX?

Waiting on you explaining why I see more running Neons than dead ones, which goes against your earlier assertion that most Neons are dead?

And, of course, waiting for you to show that a WRX will dominate an SRT-4 with just an exhaust.

Until you back up your claims, you're just blowing smoke. I have no beef with you, but you shouldn't be running your mouth (or hands in this case) if you can't back up what you say.

It's not too late to admit that you weren't basing the things you said on solid fact. We all do it at times.

 

[denn454]

correct me if i'm wrong, but last i checked this WAS a buick site...

wrx, srt-4's, evos, whatever are all decent cars for a daily driver, and for a little fun at the track. nearly 18 years ago buicks stared appearing at tracks, much like the the new muscle cars(dare i call them that) are today. in another 20 years i'd be shocked to see more than a small handfull of these new cars at the track, or driving arounde all pretty cool cars, but will they last? i'm not questioning reliability here, i'm asking will they stand the test of time?

anyways its great that some of us here are open minded enough to see a new small compact car and argue that one is better than another, at least you aren't all saying stupid cars, next week some kid will put his 4' wing and stickers on them and that you see them as cool cars, thats great i'm not poking fun of anyone here.

But if anyone remembers the ORIGIONAL question of will a gn beat a srt-4, i still dont' think that has been answered. i'd like to think the gn is a better car, if you gave me the choice of the 2 cars hands down i'd take the gn.

 

[SyHopeful]

Originally posted by denn454
But if anyone remembers the ORIGIONAL question of will a gn beat a srt-4, i still dont' think that has been answered. i'd like to think the gn is a better car, if you gave me the choice of the 2 cars hands down i'd take the gn.

I answered that question in my first post in this thread. Stock vs. stock, the GN will take the SRT-4 on the launch, but the SRT-4 will catch up and eventually pass the GN.

This is, of course, assuming good drivers in each car and that they are bone stock.

Agreed, the GN is more of a car, but don't take the little pocket rocket Neon lightly

 

[I eat Z06]

The origniol question was awnsered long ago. I said it would be a driver vs. driver match. With the buick having an edge. If you want to know if a new 2003 WRX can be bought for under 20 grand, go talk to a sales person. Remember it is the end of the car year and next years models are on show room floors. The new 2004 Imprezza line came out in July or August. So there arnt many 2003's left, but if you find one it will be cheap. Last I heard, Subaru had under 1% financing for 03's. Anyway. Supra's, RX-7's and 8's, WRX's, STi's, Civics, Neons, MR2's, DSM's, EVO's, and Skylines are all sport compact. If you need verification go out and buy a copy of Sport Compact Car. The WRX has a Viscous-coupling locking center differential (front drive shafts come out of, looks like a VW tranny with a driveshaft out the back) with a Viscous limited slip rear differential. The STi has a Driver Contolled Center Differential with a electrically managed continious variable transfer clutch. In other words you can control where the power goes. From 50% front and rear to 65% rear. Sorry I messed up, the limited slip is in the center (front wheels) AND rear. Besides, I have never seen a neon "Run". They slump around alot though. If I had the money and time to put my stock exhaust back on, cut off the muffler, and then take it to an AWD dino I would. Sorry, I am not going to. I hope that that awnsers all of your questions. They are all solid facts. I would like to add that if the car was born in Japan, dosnt mean that it is rice. It needs a big wing, neon, body kit, and a tin can to be rice (all things that provide no power). Unfortunatly that means any vehicle can be rice. Ones that have just go-fast parts in it arnt rice. Just as common fact, a Buick with $100 dollars in modifications will smoke a WRX or SRT4 with $100 into them. Agian I will state that you will NEVER get recogniton in a neon, no matter how fast it is.

Nick

 

[Randy Greenoe]

Originally posted by I eat Z06
Agian I will state that you will NEVER get recogniton in a neon, no matter how fast it is.

I beg to disagree. Saturday my son got his new SRT in a matter of minutes three gearheads from down the street were in the drive asking if that was a 2004 SRT. They knew the differances between the 03 and 04 and were very knowledgeble of a SRT. Then later my son went to the local hangout and it was the samething with request to go for a ride.We have two Turbo Regals,two turbo Talons and now a SRT. I am very confident that the SRT will be as stout of a performer as the rest of the fleet. All our cars are heavily modified and perform well and I think the SRT will fit in just fine.

 

[The Don]

I don't like neons anythig can be made faster but I don't like the turbo set-up in them ps oh yeah someone said they come pretty maxed out that person was right they are pretty maxed out!!

 

[The Don]

I don't like neons anythig can be made faster but I don't like the turbo set-up in them ps oh yeah someone said they come pretty maxed out that person was right they are pretty maxed out!!

 

[The Don]

I eat Z06:
Supra's, Skylines, 300zx, lexus sc300T, and 3000gts aren't in the sport compact class...they are in a high end import class designed to beat and rival each other and higher end domestic cars..ie(camaro,T/A, mustang and vette) all of these cars execise the option of forced induction, have v6's/i6's, have over 300hp, expensive, well made, are good for top end, handle well and are the length and weight of a camaro....RX-7's,8's and mr2 are autocross cars

in that retospect some porsche cars could be considered sport compacts because of their size...

 

[SyHopeful]

Originally posted by The Don
I don't like neons anythig can be made faster but I don't like the turbo set-up in them ps oh yeah someone said they come pretty maxed out that person was right they are pretty maxed out!!

There are about as maxed out as the Turbo Buicks were from the factory.

 

[The Don]

The technical setup is going to disappoint many people when they get this car. The turbo, wastegate, BOV, O2 housing, and manifold are all one piece. This setup is going to make it extremely hard to upgrade the turbo. People are going to buy these cars thinking that its going to be one that they can upgrade for a fairly small amount of money and are going to be rudely awakened when they find out how much they are actually going to have to replace to get more horsepower.

Turbo dodge? You remember Daytonas right? They were fast too, they just all blew up. I also remember turbo shadows and a few turbo Le Barons. None of them are around anymore either. That is all I can think of when I think of the SRT-4.

 

[Scott Long]

I'm 21 years old so I'm probably one of the younger generation guys here. I was raised in Michigan and until a few years ago we didn't get all the ricer crap that other states had. Seeing as how we have the MOTOR CITY, I was raised around real muscle cars! One of my friends had 70 Chevelle, my uncle has a 69 Charger R/T I grew up riding in, a lot of Monte SS, Camaro Z28's, Mustang GT's, and other cars were what I was raised around. The only import I've ever owned was an Audi but it was german, awd, and luxury so I liked it. I wouldn't want a jap import.

Given the choice between a brand new 0 mile SRT-4 in black, or a 1987 Buick Grand National or black on grey T-Type, I'd pick the Buick hands down. I know the potential and rareness of these cars. Every 18 year old that can will try to go get a loan for an SRT-4 or have mommy and daddy buy it for them. If someone gave me one, I'd drive it for a winter beater and daily commuter to work but I wouldn't waste my hard earned money on the car payments.

 

[Randy Greenoe]

You have two Thunderbird S.C.s and you would use a brand new SRT as a winter beater? Yeah right!

 

[SyHopeful]

Originally posted by The Don
The technical setup is going to disappoint many people when they get this car. The turbo, wastegate, BOV, O2 housing, and manifold are all one piece. This setup is going to make it extremely hard to upgrade the turbo. People are going to buy these cars thinking that its going to be one that they can upgrade for a fairly small amount of money and are going to be rudely awakened when they find out how much they are actually going to have to replace to get more horsepower.

Turbo dodge? You remember Daytonas right? They were fast too, they just all blew up. I also remember turbo shadows and a few turbo Le Barons. None of them are around anymore either. That is all I can think of when I think of the SRT-4.

The SRT-4 has basically the same turbo, 16G, as the Mitsu Evo, which is good for 11s. Granted, the integral turbine housing is not fun, but the people that'll want to run better than 11s will probably go with a custom exhaust manifold anyway.

The engine is built stout as hell, it's not going to "just blow up". Hell, Dodge offers warranty-covered performance upgrades, up to 275 hp I believe.

The old turbo Dodges blew up because people beat the **** out of them. Ever seen a 12-second minivan? how about a 10-second K-car? I can show you both, and they are powered by the turbo 2.2/2.5 Chrysler I4s. They are cheap to buy and cheap to modify. Hell, before I bought the GN I was seriously considering a turbo minivan just for the sleeper effect.

 

[I eat Z06]

Good luck seein a tuned SRT4 around in 7 years. The STi or WRX will still be around because they are not bein pushed to the max from the factory. The SRT4 dosnt have **** to add for a low budget. **** Neons!

Nick

 

[Sinful6]

lol, since when is a Mustang a "higher-end domestic car"?




-DC

 

[SyHopeful]

Originally posted by I eat Z06
Good luck seein a tuned SRT4 around in 7 years. The STi or WRX will still be around because they are not bein pushed to the max from the factory. The SRT4 dosnt have **** to add for a low budget. **** Neons!

Nick

My god, just shut up already. You already made yourself sound like a 16-year-old jackass who reads a little too much Import Tuner, you aren't helping yourself.

 

[UrbsNSpices]

Originally posted by I eat Z06
Once agian I will state that you will never get recogniton in a neon, no matter how fast it is.

Nick

People say the IDENTICAL thing about buicks.

 

[bishir]

I know a guy in town that races his SRT and he's running 8.6 now in the 1/8th with mods. All of his stock runs were 9.1s 9.2s and that was the most he could get after multiple passes. My GN ran a 9.1 first pass stock then I broke into the 8s on stock tires! GN beats SRT hands down!


Also, he told me the new SRT turbo upgrade kit is out..... ONLY 3000 DOLLARS!

 

[tlturbo]

Repeat after me ------

TURBO BUICK BOARD
TURBO BUICK BOARD
TURBO BUICK BOARD

Enough already

 

[uglyvaliant]

Originally posted by I eat Z06
...because they are not bein pushed to the max from the factory.

Really, dude. You keep up with this mantra w/o any proof of this statement.

Basically the question is, where is your proof?

Care to cite history as an example of your statement? Because certianly dodge has turbocharged enough cars for you to base this on, you know (they've turbo'd more gasoline cars than any manufactuer evAr!) so you should be able to find ample evidence of guys trying in vain to modify thier turbocharged dodges, right?

(Are you following me here?)

To make things even easier for you I will point out that the old 2.2/2.5 series motors have much in common with the 2.0/2.4 motors as far as bearing/rods/main caps/crank/pistons are concerned....so you we could reasonably be able to extrapulate a supposed breaking point based on the similarities b/w the two

(See how easy I am trying to make it for you? I am trying to help you win this argument so you can settle the debate here you know?)

Of course, to make things even easier I'll save you the time on research and answer the question for you....

Many of old "turbododges" live just fine on the factory short-block to HP levels up to about 400hp...that's the old 2.2/2.5's...then things will start to break.

Now, the 2.4 turbo that has many similarites takes it a step further....IE, it has better main bearing caps...the block was recast for extra ribbing for better structural rigity (less flex of the block helps HG live under very high boost, allows bearings to live, etc) so it can withstand greater power outputs. The rods, while heavier are also worlds stronger than stock 2.4 rods. Forged pistons (similiar in construction to the 3.8's) are further enhanced by the use of oil squirters to reduce the heat the pistons see substatially, allowing for a piston that will probably live into the high 30's psi range (the old 2.2 started giving up past 30psi)...of course, the heads of the 2.4 flow much much better than the old 2.2 heads so less boost is required to reach the same HP as well...less boost=less stress, you know?

So from what I can reasonably piece together, I think it's very safe to say that 400hp is well within reason for the 2.4 (far cry from being maxed out at a rated 215/230 eh?) and I could push it to say that I would bet you could see 500hp from the tiny 4 banger and not worry about ventilating a block.

Now, can you refute that? specifically I mean bish