junkyard t
New Member
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2002
For those who can't afford a WRX STI there is a cheaper version it's the KiaRio sport pack. looks just like the WRX.
Stock GN vs SRT-4???
- Thread starter Scott Long
- Start date
ez at nova
I hate rice
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2001
It's a NEON 
'Nuff said
Make all the comments about how the WRX looks, the Neon is way uglier and will fall apart in a year or so. Don't be jealous of Subaru's quality and technological advantages, like bothering to put a diff...actually 2 diffs... into the car when it came out. Not a year later. I enjoy being able to press the gas in a turn. SRT = Sucks Right Turning.
'Nuff said Make all the comments about how the WRX looks, the Neon is way uglier and will fall apart in a year or so. Don't be jealous of Subaru's quality and technological advantages, like bothering to put a diff...actually 2 diffs... into the car when it came out. Not a year later. I enjoy being able to press the gas in a turn. SRT = Sucks Right Turning.
turbolag87
New Member
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2003
slow down buddy, Take your head out of ass and stop being ignorent. TO me the neon looks MUCH better and handles alot better also. Jelous? HA not even close.
ez at nova
I hate rice
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2001
If you think it handles better, you need to spend some time at a track. wrong-wheel-drive + big HP = not fun. I'm glad you're happy with an econobox with a gutsy motor. It's a great car for the money, just not in the same class as others. Have fun reaching back to roll down those back windows.
turbolag87
New Member
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2003
a gutsy motor? lets see what hp numbers did you put down stock in your wrx? how does 251whp soundto you from a neon? i have driven both cars, and I chose the neon by a mile. Grow up and act your age bud. Not saying that wrx's are ugly, they NICE cars. BUTTTTTT i just chose to have the neon. Looks meaner, pulls HARDERRRR and sounds better. You have your opinions and i have mine, but I at least am not a prick about them.
Danny
Danny
turbolag87
New Member
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2003
Btw if you hate rice, i guess you should sell your japscrap no?
I agree with the statement that all WRX's look beter than any SRT4. They have better build qualtiy, are more technologically advanced, have a muffler, and come standard with cruise control unlike Dodge. Turbolag87 the Subaru's are Japenese but arnt crap. Subaru and Mitsu make American rice look like crap. Have you heard a SRT-4? It sounds like a frickin honda, while the boxter Subaru's sound like a Porsche. Name one stock vehicle that can go fast in snow, rain, mud, 1/4 track, and road course. Subaru and Mitsu can. Does Brembo ring a bell, it does to Subaru and Mitsu. Subaru wins safety. STi = 6 speed with driver controlled transfer case, and intercooler sprayer. If you want to see which one is the strongest, look at WRC standings. Who is the strongest there Subaru and Mitsu. SRT4's are in the middle of the pack. My WRX has never lost to a SRT-4. The SRT-4 has the power to spin the front 2 when the WRX has the power to light up all 4. And that is with 83 ft/lb less than the STi. Apples(Subaru) and Oranges(SRT4), oranges squish easier.
P.S. if you want a low price dodge that is fast, get a 93 Viper. Its fast and can be found for high 20's low 30's.
Nick
P.S. if you want a low price dodge that is fast, get a 93 Viper. Its fast and can be found for high 20's low 30's.
Nick
ez at nova
I hate rice
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2001
Not really. Rice can just as easily be a Cavlier with a 3 foot wing as it can a Civic with SiR stickers on it. It's not where the car was made, it's what is done to it that makes it rice. Plus, GM has a nice ownership in Subaru which of course is common knowledge now.
How can you make ONE single comment about the build quality of the SRT-4? They haven't even been out lon genough for problems to arise.
How is the Subaru more technologically advanced?
If the SRT-4 needed mufflers, it would have them. I've heard more people say good things about the sound than bad, and sorry but I've yet to hear a Subaru that sounds like a Porsche. Sound is subjective. So are looks.
Yeah, Subarus and Mitsus are just the epitome of reliability...as long as you put in a new clutch and tranny in the WRX, new clutch in the Mitsu (Evo), new tranny in the Mitsu (DSMs), new timing belt in the Mitsu (DSM), and hope that your center differential doesn't lock up on the highway (DSM).
Stock vs. stock, the SRT-4 is faster than the WRX. Period.
On a racetrack, stock for stock, I'd have a hard time placing bets. The WRX is heavier and has some crappy tires. The 04 SRT-4s have LSD stock.
However, the Neon did very well on the One Lap of America, and also has a long history of wins in SCCA racing. Ever heard of the ACR?
When Dodge built the SRT-4, they were gunning for the sport compact market, which they are dominating as far as performance.
The WRX to SRT-4 is an apples to oranges comparison, yes, but since they are priced so closely together these sort of comparisons happen. Conclusion? WRX loses to SRT-4 anywhere that AWD isn't an advantage.
The STi and Evo are far better cars than the SRT-4. I don't think anybody here will argue it. They're also at least $7000 more expensive.
turbolag87
New Member
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2003
well said bud. K this thread ends here now
Danny
Danny
True the SRT-4 hasnt been around for a year. But the neon chassis has been around for about 10. That is the same thing underneath as a 1995 neon es. Different motor, minor body changes. Most of the neons built are now dead because of poor build quality of the low price car. I read on the SRT4 forum about a sun roof coming off at high speeds. That sounds strong. The Impreza chassis has been around about the same ammount. They still are running, and keeping their value. Also I was referring to the Mitsubishi Lancer Evo not DSM. DSM are sweet, cheap, and for the same money would whoop the **** out of a SRT-4 and WRX. For exhausts the neon dosnt have a muffler, the WRX has 3 caytalitic converters and a muffler. If the pre-cat is taken off of the WRX and cutting off the muffler it would make more power than the neon and still be legal with 2 cats. SRT-4's dont come stock with a LSD. Subaru has 3. WRX and Evo have wider tires. I am not shure what the SRT4 is made of, but most of the older neons are rust buckets. Subaru is alluminum. For dominating the sport compact you need a STi, Supra, RX7, or 3000 GT. And for the price now, you can get a new 03' WRX for under $20,000. In the real world you wont get **** for recognition in a neon. No matter how fast it is.
Nick
Nick
Oh really? So I should see more dead Neons than running ones, according to you?
Once again, reality escapes you. Neons depreciate like a sonofabitch because they are cheap cars, but they are reliable.
Old Imprezas do not hold their value amazingly and I see more rusted out Imprezas than Neons.
You were referring to Mitsubishi. If you were talking about the Evo, go back and change your post. Regardless, Mitsubishi doesn't exactly have a strong point of reliability. I know, I've owned a DSM.
Again, what is your big thing about the Neon not having a muffler? I want proof that all it takes for a WRX to be faster is have an open exhaust as it's ONLY mod.
I JUST told you, the 2004 SRT-4s have LSD stock. Reading comprehension > you, evidently. And the WRX has an open front diff, bud. You're right on the tires. Just shows how the Neon is even more handicapped.
Subaru is aluminum? Then why do I see a ****load of rusty old Imprezas everywhere? I only see Neons with bad paint, not so many with rust. Again, prove it.
First off, I call a big, fat BULLSH*T on buying a new WRX for under $20,000. Are we talking brand-new, never been owned?
Second, not a single car you listed there is a sport compact. None of them are FWD unless you get the crappy base 3000GT which isn't going to win any contests except "most expensive to fix".
Tell you what, when you run into a modded SRT-4 that hands you your ass, you can talk all you want about how you aren't going to respect him. Everybody else will know that you just got your ass handed to you by a Neon and you will become the one being laughed at, not the guy in the fast Neon.
Sport compacts are primarily FWD. What, you talking about the all-dominating Miata and 240SX? The Miata is a roadster, not a sport compact. The 240SX is not exactly a blazing machine in stock form.
I never said the 03 SRT-4 came with an LSD.
And YOU show me a brand new 03 WRX for under 20,000. YOU are the one who is saying they are out there. I'm asking for proof.
Nothing about the aluminum bodies? I'm waiting for proof on that. And proof that a WRX with a catless and mufflerless exhaust will have more power than the SRT-4. Or were you just talking out of your ass because, heaven forbid, the SRT-4 do something better than the WRX?
ez at nova
I hate rice
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2001
OK, I'm going to try for a non-childish , not completely biased post here to comment on a few things.
Regarding the sub $20k new WRX. I really don't see that happening. I'd believe a low optioned one for 22,500 or 23 and a more loaded one for closer to $24,500. I don't think Subaru is giving rebates or anything on them.
On the aluminum, I don't know about older models, but the WRX does indeed have an aluminum hood, and maybe a few other pannels. Lift a WRX hood with one finger and it's amazing.
On the muffler issue, I don't think it's a bad thing that the Neon is muffler-less. I think it's kind of cool that they can do that. I've heard one and I think it sounds ok...(and it is subjective). I'd put it at sounding better than a civic, but not as nice as the WRX or GN (or my Saturn I used to have with a Borla). There was a comment negating the WRX -> Porsche sound a while back. A boxer sounds similar to a boxer regardless of +/- 2 cyl. ...the similarity is there if you listen. It is a wonderful sound. As far as the WRX making more power than the neon with an open exhaust. I would tend to believe that. We are talking about a turbo car here and we all know what opening up the exhaust can do. Look at TXS's turbo-back. That retains 2 cats and a muffler, and you still gain about 15 - 20 hp.
I do think the Neons may have quality issue down the road. I've heard more bad than good about long term Neons. On the contrary, there are many 100,000+ mile Subarus around that live through many Northern winters. And I still want to smack the hell out of the Chrysler paint people. I had to strip about 4 of those ugly blue Neons to repaint them because they peel.
Anyway, bottom line as far as I'm concerned - SRT is GREAT for the money. It may even beat a WRX bone stock for bone stock on a dry, clean, straight road (about the ONLY time AWD will not give you an edge). But, at the same time, it isn't in the same class (read Motortrend's recent issue, they correctly class it with the Focus SVT and the new Saturn Red Line Ion). It's the same deal as when, on the WRX boards, people argue that a WRX is that better than an S4. The WRX may be quicker in a number of cases, but the S4 is more car in many other ways.
I may get beat at a stoplight in a modded SRT-4, but I'd rather drive to meet my college buddies in my WRX than in a Neon, Focus, or Saturn. If image means zilch to you, great, more power to you.
On a side note, it appears on Dodge's site that you can get a base $11,000 neon with a nav system in it for around $1,400!? That's insane! That has to be the cheapest car you can get a nav system in, ever. I was surprised by that.
Regarding the sub $20k new WRX. I really don't see that happening. I'd believe a low optioned one for 22,500 or 23 and a more loaded one for closer to $24,500. I don't think Subaru is giving rebates or anything on them.
On the aluminum, I don't know about older models, but the WRX does indeed have an aluminum hood, and maybe a few other pannels. Lift a WRX hood with one finger and it's amazing.
On the muffler issue, I don't think it's a bad thing that the Neon is muffler-less. I think it's kind of cool that they can do that. I've heard one and I think it sounds ok...(and it is subjective). I'd put it at sounding better than a civic, but not as nice as the WRX or GN (or my Saturn I used to have with a Borla). There was a comment negating the WRX -> Porsche sound a while back. A boxer sounds similar to a boxer regardless of +/- 2 cyl. ...the similarity is there if you listen. It is a wonderful sound. As far as the WRX making more power than the neon with an open exhaust. I would tend to believe that. We are talking about a turbo car here and we all know what opening up the exhaust can do. Look at TXS's turbo-back. That retains 2 cats and a muffler, and you still gain about 15 - 20 hp.
I do think the Neons may have quality issue down the road. I've heard more bad than good about long term Neons. On the contrary, there are many 100,000+ mile Subarus around that live through many Northern winters. And I still want to smack the hell out of the Chrysler paint people. I had to strip about 4 of those ugly blue Neons to repaint them because they peel.
Anyway, bottom line as far as I'm concerned - SRT is GREAT for the money. It may even beat a WRX bone stock for bone stock on a dry, clean, straight road (about the ONLY time AWD will not give you an edge). But, at the same time, it isn't in the same class (read Motortrend's recent issue, they correctly class it with the Focus SVT and the new Saturn Red Line Ion). It's the same deal as when, on the WRX boards, people argue that a WRX is that better than an S4. The WRX may be quicker in a number of cases, but the S4 is more car in many other ways.
I may get beat at a stoplight in a modded SRT-4, but I'd rather drive to meet my college buddies in my WRX than in a Neon, Focus, or Saturn. If image means zilch to you, great, more power to you.
On a side note, it appears on Dodge's site that you can get a base $11,000 neon with a nav system in it for around $1,400!? That's insane! That has to be the cheapest car you can get a nav system in, ever. I was surprised by that.
I guess I'm lost here.
Why are we debating stock vs stock because WHY would anyone in their right mind have a GN or T and leave it STOCK unless they are competing in car shows?
No offense guys, but there is NO REASON for ANY Turbo Buick to NOT be running at least low 13's
Off the showroom they are very high 13 to low 14 sec cars. But that is with boost set at 12-13 lbs with a non-adjustable wastegate rod (YES - that's the way they came). For under a dollar, you can make this adjustable and run 16-18 boost on 93 octane. That instantly gets you to mid 13's.
Put a Hooker or similar cat back exhaust on for a couple hundred and buy a decent chip and you are at low 13's.
BUT for adjustability and engine safety, upgrade the inadequate fuel pump and add an adjustable fuel pressure regulator.
If you can tune the car half decent, for a little more than $500 you can get in the 12's ON THE STREET.
My friend has an 87 GN that runs in the mid 11.50's and the heads and intake have never been off the car. Totally bolt ons. He dynoed 482 at the rear wheels. Granted that was with 116 and 27 psi.
So spend $500 and forget about these econoboxes.
By the way, my GN is high 10 capable and it is a daily driver (I mean like to work and back, grocery, etc).
I grew up with muscle cars - 8 big block vettes, Trans Ams, etc and the GN (my second) is the most fun car I have ever had. There is something you get with it that not many other cars give you I call it "the piss off factor". Nothing like killing a Z06 with 30 day tags on it to piss someone off.
I enjoyed reading all the posts in this thread - I have seen a few of these new cracker boxes but none will race me. Now I wonder if one of those engines will fit in my PT Cruiser?? Wouldn't that be a fun car? Isn't it a Neon frame??
Terry
Why are we debating stock vs stock because WHY would anyone in their right mind have a GN or T and leave it STOCK unless they are competing in car shows?
No offense guys, but there is NO REASON for ANY Turbo Buick to NOT be running at least low 13's
Off the showroom they are very high 13 to low 14 sec cars. But that is with boost set at 12-13 lbs with a non-adjustable wastegate rod (YES - that's the way they came). For under a dollar, you can make this adjustable and run 16-18 boost on 93 octane. That instantly gets you to mid 13's.
Put a Hooker or similar cat back exhaust on for a couple hundred and buy a decent chip and you are at low 13's.
BUT for adjustability and engine safety, upgrade the inadequate fuel pump and add an adjustable fuel pressure regulator.
If you can tune the car half decent, for a little more than $500 you can get in the 12's ON THE STREET.
My friend has an 87 GN that runs in the mid 11.50's and the heads and intake have never been off the car. Totally bolt ons. He dynoed 482 at the rear wheels. Granted that was with 116 and 27 psi.
So spend $500 and forget about these econoboxes.
By the way, my GN is high 10 capable and it is a daily driver (I mean like to work and back, grocery, etc).
I grew up with muscle cars - 8 big block vettes, Trans Ams, etc and the GN (my second) is the most fun car I have ever had. There is something you get with it that not many other cars give you I call it "the piss off factor". Nothing like killing a Z06 with 30 day tags on it to piss someone off.
I enjoyed reading all the posts in this thread - I have seen a few of these new cracker boxes but none will race me. Now I wonder if one of those engines will fit in my PT Cruiser?? Wouldn't that be a fun car? Isn't it a Neon frame??
Terry
I agree almost 100% with you. I was never arguing that the Neon was a better car than the Impreza or that the SRT-4 was better than the WRX. I was just shooting down a lot of "Eat A ZO6"s arguments that seemed to be based more in imagination than anything else. You'll notice he was the one to start using insults but hasn't backed a single thing he's said up. Except for using some isolated incident of an SRT-4 losing it's sunroof as grounds to believe that every single SRT-4 will somehow blow a head gasket, frag it's tranny, lose it's paint, and go careening into a wall as soon as they hit 5000 miles.
As for the exhaust comment....10-15whp is nice from an exhaust, but remember the 03 SRT-4s were putting down around 220whp, whereas WRXs (yes, I know AWD leeches power) only put down about 165 +/- to the wheels. So I don't think that simply an exhaust will put the WRX ahead of the SRT-4.
Yeah, Neon quality isn't great, but what do you expect for a car you can buy new for just over $10k?
And I have seen plenty of rusted out imprezas and plenty of 100k+ Neons.
I agree that a boxer engine will always have distinct boxer sound, but it's been my experience that Subarus have more of their own distinct sound, discernable from Porsches. I sure as hell can't compare the exhaust note of a Ford or Dodge V10 to that of a Ferrari's, could I?
Also notice that in my first or second post, I said this:
Terry: Some people like to leave their cars stock. I know if I had a mint, low-mileage GN or GNX I wouldn't touch it.
Also, the PT Cruiser IS available with the turbo 2.4 in it. I believe they are rated at 215hp.
Terry: Some people like to leave their cars stock. I know if I had a mint, low-mileage GN or GNX I wouldn't touch it.
I agree, BUT then they probably don't race anyone with it or worse yet, don't even drive it.
It seems there are quite a few guys on the KILL board lately that are running low 14's or even worse. Those guys should skip a Friday night date and get those cars to the low 13's. Lubrant makes a great chip for $50. Upgrade the fuel pump (needs to be done after all these years anyway), get an adj FP reg from Mark on the Buick Board cheap and adjust the boost. Even if it is totally 100% stock you can still get it to mid 13's. Who is gonna check your chip for a factory number?
I guess I was just trying to say, if you are going to drive it and INSIST on racing someone with it, MOD IT some first. 14 sec GN's make us look bad HA HA Ya don't go to a gun fight with no bullets in the gun.
Yeh, I know about the turbo PT - thought about trading my 2002 for one but not worth the $ loss.
Take care - Terry
I agree, BUT then they probably don't race anyone with it or worse yet, don't even drive it.
It seems there are quite a few guys on the KILL board lately that are running low 14's or even worse. Those guys should skip a Friday night date and get those cars to the low 13's. Lubrant makes a great chip for $50. Upgrade the fuel pump (needs to be done after all these years anyway), get an adj FP reg from Mark on the Buick Board cheap and adjust the boost. Even if it is totally 100% stock you can still get it to mid 13's. Who is gonna check your chip for a factory number?
I guess I was just trying to say, if you are going to drive it and INSIST on racing someone with it, MOD IT some first. 14 sec GN's make us look bad HA HA Ya don't go to a gun fight with no bullets in the gun.
Yeh, I know about the turbo PT - thought about trading my 2002 for one but not worth the $ loss.
Take care - Terry
turbolag87
New Member
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2003
all the neons i ahve seen have been putting down 235whp to a whopping 251 out of the showroom. Ya I drove a fully loaded PT and it was very nice indeed.
Danny
Danny
I wasnt basing anyting on imagination. I was basing them on facts. The reason 03 WRX's are selling for so cheap is for 04 there is a pretty major makeover on the car. The dealers want the 03's out and the 04's in. If you look around and talk to a salesman they could inform you better than I could. About the alluminum, every panel of the WRX besides the bumper covers, rear 1/4 panels and roof is alluminum. My neighbors neon has horrible paint and a rust hole in her hood. For motors, most motors of the same design will sound relitivaly alike. There are few exceptions (Italian sports cars). Most V style, boxters, and inlines sound similar between different companies. So an inline 4 dodge will sound like an inline honda without the 9,000 red line. Once agian I will state that you will never get recogniton in a neon, no matter how fast it is.
Nick
Nick
