G Body Drag Car Alignment Settings

[charlief1]

I would also be interested in your at home Alignment info if you wouldn't mind passing that over to me as we'll.

Thought I'd add this since I just found it. Some easy to use tools and some really good info.

Wheel Alignment Machine, Tools - Wheel Alignment Equipment - Eastwood

Wheel Alignment Machine, Tools - Wheel Alignment Equipment - Eastwood

YouTube - Eastwood presents Fastrax Camber/Caster Gauge

YouTube - DIY Alignment - Part 1

YouTube - DIY Alignment - Part 2

YouTube - DIY Alignment - Part 3

The links above should give you most of the info but if you don't understand all of it PM me and I'll do my best to help.

 

[Black Air]

The links above should give you most of the info but if you don't understand all of it PM me and I'll do my best to help.

I saved those links thank you.

 

[Black Air]

Donnie, you should've PMd me. Granted I'm more of a road course guy but the same still applies. You want your camber about .1 to .2 negitive with you in the car and everything set up as you would run the car down the track. (Air bags ect loaded) The negitive setting will allow for better handling as the suspension loads and unloads. Remember, the camber curve in the metric G body cars is an issue as well as bump steer. When you get in the car it will change the settings to some degree but it depends on 1) position of the driver and 2) total weight of you and equiptment.
Caster needs to be over 4 degrees and is prefered at 4.5 degrees positive. The higher caster will wear tires on the edges when turning but it will keep the car going straighter. As an example, look at the caster wheels on your creeper. Granted it's not exactly the same but it is caster. The higher the caster the more the wheel will want to go straight. Make sure both sides have almost the same caster setting because the track should be fairly flat as oposed to roads that have a slight crown to allow rain run off.
If you have a set of toe plates set it for 1/16" to 3/32" in. Toe in is best because the drag on the tires will want to force the steering parts to pull outward unless you've changed to something like heim or rose joints which don't flex as much.
As far as the factory settings they are developed to allow for wear and provide the best overall ride and wear of the suspension for a street application and are not for performance purposes.

charlief1

What spec's do I tell an Alignment shop when having them do the Alignment.
My car is a 10.70 car in the making.

Thanks

 

[charlief1]

charlief1

What spec's do I tell an Alignment shop when having them do the Alignment.
My car is a 10.70 car in the making.

Thanks

If the car is street driven then I stick with my original statement. you need a .5 degree difference in caster and the camber should be at 0 degrees +/- .2 degrees and negative is preffered. The higher the caster you end up with some edge wear on the tires so I really don't like more than a 3.5 degree on the right and .5 lower on the left.

If it's a dedicated racer then you can go increase positive caster for drag and if you are road racing the give it more negative camber to help on the corners, but only if it's not going to be driven on the street on a regular basis.

 

[Black Air]

If the car is street driven then I stick with my original statement. you need a .5 degree difference in caster and the camber should be at 0 degrees +/- .2 degrees and negative is preffered. The higher the caster you end up with some edge wear on the tires so I really don't like more than a 3.5 degree on the right and .5 lower on the left.

If it's a dedicated racer then you can go increase positive caster for drag and if you are road racing the give it more negative camber to help on the corners, but only if it's not going to be driven on the street on a regular basis.

It's a street car but I also want to get the most out of it also at the track....

Is this exactly what I would tell an alignment shop who would be doing the alignment.
I'm trying to get the exact numbers I can tell Them, but not so wordy, but the numbers like so many degrees for caster so many degrees of camber positive or Negative, toe in toe out that type of thing so I can just drive down there and say hey this is what I want to do can you lay that out for me if you wouldn't mind?

 

[charlief1]

It's a street car but I also want to get the most out of it also at the track....

Is this exactly what I would tell an alignment shop who would be doing the alignment.
I'm trying to get the exact numbers I can tell Them, but not so wordy, but the numbers like so many degrees for caster so many degrees of camber positive or Negative, toe in toe out that type of thing so I can just drive down there and say hey this is what I want to do can you lay that out for me if you wouldn't mind?

Well this is a little easier with the extra info. I'd say go between 3.5 to 3.75 degrees on the right side caster and .5 degrees lower on the left. On the camber you really need to get it as close to 0 degrees as possible but if it's at .1 to .2 negative it won't hurt. Toe is the same as stock. the car will feel much better going down the road and especially going around corners set up this way.

 

[Black Air]

Well this is a little easier with the extra info. I'd say go between 3.5 to 3.75 degrees on the right side caster and .5 degrees lower on the left. On the camber you really need to get it as close to 0 degrees as possible but if it's at .1 to .2 negative it won't hurt. Toe is the same as stock. the car will feel much better going down the road and especially going around corners set up this way.

I have already removed the front sway bar and have the rear set up for a better angle using baseline performance Gold uppers and Metco lowers and my anti squat value is around 130.

I'm also using Spohns anti roll bar sway bar and with all this the rear is very stiff and feels very sure footed.

I'm not concerned about making this a slalom road racer but more a strait line Quick & Fast street car that I take to the track.

So will this be good for less rolling resistance down the track for better ETs and MPH?

By the way thank you for your help =)

 

[charlief1]

I have already removed the front sway bar and have the rear set up for a better angle using baseline performance Gold uppers and Metco lowers and my anti squat value is around 130.

I'm also using Spohns anti roll bar sway bar and with all this the rear is very stiff and feels very sure footed.

I'm not concerned about making this a slalom road racer but more a strait line Quick & Fast street car that I take to the track.

So will this be good for less rolling resistance down the track for better ETs and MPH?

By the way thank you for your help =)

What most don't realize is the front swaybar has very little to do with weight transfer if the chasis is set up right. Without scaling the chasis and checking the IC as well as bump steer issues just an alignment might keep you straight down the track but it might not give the best out of the car. You really need to do some reading up about chasis set up to understand how it all works together. Eng-tips forum and baselinesuspension should give you some help, but if you're not willing to do some research on how things work together then it may not be enough. My chasis has a boxed frame, lowered front crossmember, and a relocated IC location as well as a re-enforced rear crossmember. It still flexes but not as much as stock. I posted most of it in the B4black section but not all because I don't want everyone to copy what I've done.

If you want an idea of what I've done so far go to the B4black section and do a search for "Finally got some time". Just haven't had the time to do more with the new job.

 

[Black Air]

What most don't realize is the front swaybar has very little to do with weight transfer if the chasis is set up right. Without scaling the chasis and checking the IC as well as bump steer issues just an alignment might keep you straight down the track but it might not give the best out of the car. You really need to do some reading up about chasis set up to understand how it all works together. Eng-tips forum and baselinesuspension should give you some help, but if you're not willing to do some research on how things work together then it may not be enough. My chasis has a boxed frame, lowered front crossmember, and a relocated IC location as well as a re-enforced rear crossmember. It still flexes but not as much as stock. I posted most of it in the B4black section but not all because I don't want everyone to copy what I've done.

If you want an idea of what I've done so far go to the B4black section and do a search for "Finally got some time". Just haven't had the time to do more with the new job.

I also have a relocated IC location as well as a re-enforced rear crossmember. I just haven't weighed the cars back half or front half.
I used Baseline Performance suspension Calculator to change my IC with their Pro Gold upper adjustable CAs.

 

[charlief1]

I also have a relocated IC location as well as a re-enforced rear crossmember. I just haven't weighed the cars back half or front half.
I used Baseline Performance suspension Calculator to change my IC with their Pro Gold upper adjustable CAs.

Get that car on some scales and find out where the weight is sitting. You can get so much more out of it if you put the weight where it needs to go.

 

[Black Air]

Get that car on some scales and find out where the weight is sitting. You can get so much more out of it if you put the weight where it needs to go.

I don't have access to four corner scales but how about I weigh the front half and the rear half?
Plus when doing the Alignment do I need to simulate the car going down the track by putting a jack under it and lifting it to some degree while doing the Alignment?

 

[Alky V6]

I don't have access to four corner scales but how about I weigh the front half and the rear half?
Plus when doing the Alignment do I need to simulate the car going down the track by putting a jack under it and lifting it to some degree while doing the Alignment?

I would try to jack the front end at least an inch.
I used a single scale to do a four corner weighing. It's takes some extra effort, but it can be done. I highly recommend that you do a four corner weighing. It will tell you a lot.

 

[Black Air]

I would try to jack the front end at least an inch.
I used a single scale to do a four corner weighing. It's takes some extra effort, but it can be done. I highly recommend that you do a four corner weighing. It will tell you a lot.

I need to do this for a front end alignment??? Or the overall suspension front and rear?

 

[charlief1]

I need to do this for a front end alignment??? Or the overall suspension front and rear?

It took me several years to convince Donnie to scale his car and he's been suprised with how well the car did after he figured out where the weight was. If you've got a circle track of some sort near you go for a visit and talk to the racers. One of them will tell you who's got scales and how much it will cost to get the car weighed. Once you get the weights figured out then the alignment will work much better, believe me.

 

[Black Air]

It took me several years to convince Donnie to scale his car and he's been suprised with how well the car did after he figured out where the weight was. If you've got a circle track of some sort near you go for a visit and talk to the racers. One of them will tell you who's got scales and how much it will cost to get the car weighed. Once you get the weights figured out then the alignment will work much better, believe me.

I know of a scale to weigh the whole car, I weighed it there already. Would I be able to put one wheel at a time on it the scale it? Or is that a dumb question ha ha? I know that you can weight it front to back that way so why not wheel to wheel?

 

[GARY HARVEY]

60' & stay straight to the end and then stop with little or no input is critical.
Anything other than this and your ass is mud.

I suggest befriending someone that does this to put food on his table.

Spend time at your track and you WILL get acquainted the right person.
(& if they do not have a recently certified & calibrated scales.. keep looking).

Cost be damned, it is your life that is on the line, not (just) the car.

In Houston and need help.. (most) everything that Lloyd Swint does is suspension related.
If Lloyd is not available Johnny Harrison is the other shop in the area.

Please, do not think you can setup a car if it is something you don't do ALL THE TIME.

YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT

 

[charlief1]

I know of a scale to weigh the whole car, I weighed it there already. Would I be able to put one wheel at a time on it the scale it? Or is that a dumb question ha ha? I know that you can weight it front to back that way so why not wheel to wheel?

The scales are the same height and need to be level to get the proper weight of the car. Most drive on scales have a level surface but the area leading up to them isn't level with the scale so you won't get a true reading.

 

[Black Air]

The scales are the same height and need to be level to get the proper weight of the car. Most drive on scales have a level surface but the area leading up to them isn't level with the scale so you won't get a true reading.

So if I can't weigh the car the alignment above won't apply? Or is it a general alignment?

 

[Alky V6]

Generally, people don't worry about the height of the rear when they do an alignment. But, it is general practice to raise the front end by about one inch for a G-body drag car. If it's mainly a street car, I don't think I'd bother jacking the front end. If you have some good data that shows you the dynamic heights (front and rear) of the car, then use that. Most people don't have that sort of data.

When I weighed my car, I used one livery scale and moved it from corner to corner. I first determined what shims I needed on the floor to make a level surface for the car. Then I made three stands that were the same height as the livery scale. As I moved the scale to each corner, I had to make sure the scale was shimmed the proper amount for that corner of the car. The stands were also shimmed according to the needs of the corner of the car and the flooring.
It is very cool to see what your corner weights really are. It made things a lot clearer to me as to what my car was doing. But to understand the corner weight data did take a lot of drag suspension study. There are books and a lot of online info that can get you there, but it is a lot of study if it's something that's new to you. Not rocket science.

 

[charlief1]

Donnie's right and I'm glad he's got his car set up properly now. Some of his launches were seriously scary when he started getting the set up right. What you're looking for is a setting that will let the car go down the track as straight as possible and still have street manors. There's some compromising since it's a street car rather than a dedicated racer. Once (if you can) get it scaled you'll find where the weight sits and adjust things accordingly to get the weight where you need it, then the alignment will work better. If you just have an alignment the car will go straight but you won't get the most out of it.