Buick V6 FAST XFI Crank and cam set up DIS and IPU configurations set up

[HighPSI]

Also, a word of note, if you added fuel to a cyl based on a 15 lbs pass and then did a 30 lb pass your settings would probably be wrong. Also the Injector offset is the same way its only good for a certain rpm. So both of these nice features, need to be improved upon based on more than one variable to be really effective, maybe newer software will have this.

IMO: The injector offset isn't a big deal. Once you start increasing the rpm and the overall p/w increases, the offset becomes such a small part of the overall fuel calculation and the fact that it is somewhat linear, it will easily be compensated in the VE table.

I would agree that the individual cylinder correction can be off slightly at different boost levels. But only if the boost is quite different. Lately, I have been testing several cars with WBO2 in each cylinder and it's been an eye opening experience. Based on your example, If I had a car running 15psi it is probably a pump gas/street tune where as the 30 psi would be a race tune. I would just set up the individual cylinder correction differently in each tune.
With all this being said, after testing individual cylinder WBO2, earlier this year, I spoke to "the powers that be" at FAST about revamping the individual cylinder correction tables perhaps more like the BS3 does. The reality is, 90% of XFI customers don't even use individual cylinder correction. Of those that do, 90% of those wouldn't have the means to isolate the correction based on load or rpm.

 

[norbs]

IMO: The injector offset isn't a big deal. Once you start increasing the rpm and the overall p/w increases, the offset becomes such a small part of the overall fuel calculation and the fact that it is somewhat linear, it will easily be compensated in the VE table.

I would agree that the individual cylinder correction can be off slightly at different boost levels. But only if the boost is quite different. Lately, I have been testing several cars with WBO2 in each cylinder and it's been an eye opening experience. Based on your example, If I had a car running 15psi it is probably a pump gas/street tune where as the 30 psi would be a race tune. I would just set up the individual cylinder correction differently in each tune.
With all this being said, after testing individual cylinder WBO2, earlier this year, I spoke to "the powers that be" at FAST about revamping the individual cylinder correction tables perhaps more like the BS3 does. The reality is, 90% of XFI customers don't even use individual cylinder correction. Of those that do, 90% of those wouldn't have the means to isolate the correction based on load or rpm.

I agree most won;t use it, but some real fine tuners might. On another note, what kind of individual WB's are you using? The NTK sensor and the bosch sensors are both effected by backpressure, the readings will be out without backpressure compensation. AEM makes such a WB controller, is this what you have been using?

 

[HighPSI]

I am using racepak stuff on the V8 cars. We looked into the AEM stuff for the turbo Buicks, but could only find a 4 channel set up. Since the backpressure was pretty much the same in every cylinder, I decided to try using the WBO2 without backpressure compensation. I knew the value displayed would be off quite a bit, but we were looking at cylinder to cylinder differences, not actual WBO2 values. Not very scientific, but so far, so good.

 

[sackracing]

My cam sync is at 95 on idle with a DIS, I take it that's not good.

 

[norbs]

My cam sync is at 95 on idle with a DIS, I take it that's not good.

It wont matter as long as your not going past 110 degrees, but i think Cal said even 120 would be ok? I think the ecm needs 10 degree lead time to do calculations, Cal would know..

 

[sackracing]

I was just wondering if I need to back it down. I have battle cam sync errors off and on.

 

[northerngn]

I am using racepak stuff on the V8 cars. We looked into the AEM stuff for the turbo Buicks, but could only find a 4 channel set up. Since the backpressure was pretty much the same in every cylinder, I decided to try using the WBO2 without backpressure compensation. I knew the value displayed would be off quite a bit, but we were looking at cylinder to cylinder differences, not actual WBO2 values. Not very scientific, but so far, so good.

Ever try or use 6 EGT sensors on a buick 6 and use that for individual correction calculations?
I have always wondered that ever since I saw this
http://www.compperformancegroupstor...S&Product_Code=301418&Category_Code=EGTModule

-Dan

 

[HighPSI]

I am at the racetrack in BG this weekend and have very limited internet.

Norbs, you are correct. The XFI will work all the way up to 120 degrees. Because of the way the software is written, it will probably show as a red value, but will still be fine.
Dan, I have used individual EGT's for years to do individual cylinder correction. It is a lot tougher if you are using the factory wastespark ignition.

 

[luv2fast]

I want to make sure I have this correct for everyone;s reference, so if something is incorrect lets set it straight.

If we are running the stock ignition system the following settings are to be used:

Buick DIS box checked in setup
Crank Reference angle in software 10 degrees, max timing we can run is 50 in this set up
Cam sensor is installed at 25 ATDC referenced from #1 TDC
The resulting CAM SYNC logged data should show 85 BTDC if installed right.
Inductive delay = 96 uS.
Cam precedes =#6
firing order 165432


If we are using a msd crank trigger and IPU cam and crank sensor with a distributor non-waste spark:

IPU mode checked
Crank Reference angle 50 degrees, sensor lined up centered in magnet at 50 degrees, max timing we could run is 40 in this set up.Single tooth centered in distributor
Cam sync can be set at any number from 60 degrees to 120 degrees referenced from #1 BTDC., But you would not want to be near 120 degrees since this would be the start of the next cylinder. I would suggest 80-85 degrees.
Inductive delay =40 uS
Cam precedes =#1 or #6??????????
firing order 165432

Note : items in red I need to have confirmed this is correct. Still a bit leery on the cam precedes number.

 

[luv2fast]

So a question in regards to installing a OEM buick crank sensor to be used instead of the MSD distributor as the trigger, what is the wireing schematic to hook up to a FAST classic box?

 

[HighPSI]

Not sure exactly what you are trying to do. If you are using a factory CCCI and a FAST ignition harness, it's in the help section

 

[norbs]

Cal mentioned something the other day in the CPG forum, is that if your going to use a MSD distributor with a 1 tooth inductive pick up for SEFI your cam sync can be anywhere between 20 -120 degrees, and he usually sees 30 degrees. This is if you did not re-clock your balance ring to be at 50 degrees. Also I think you keep the configuration set-up to show DIS even though your using a distributor, Cal can you confirm this?

 

[HighPSI]

Yes. that is correct. The Classic box will even recognize the IPU cam signal, even though it's designed for the discrete cam signal. If you are using an early Classic box, you may need to have it modified to turn on the points output when swapping to a dizzy.

 

[norbs]

Good to know, but what about the XFI box, do we set the cam sync to 30 BTDC and keep the DIS configuration on when using the factory crank sensor with a 10 degree ref angle?

 

[HighPSI]

If you have a phasable rotor or have modified the reluctor to be adjustable, I usually set the rotor at 25BTDC and the cam sync at 70 BTDC, but that isn't critical as long as it's anywhere between 20-120 BTDC. Most people don't have a adjustable rotor, so I have them phase the rotor at 25 BTDC and let the cam sync fall where ever as long as it's at least 10 degrees away from the crank signal. It usually is around 30 BTDC.
If it's a new build, I recommend having the reluctor on the crank clocked to 50 degrees for a better ignition strategy. If that's done you will need to run an IPU strategy

 

[norbs]

If you have a phasable rotor or have modified the reluctor to be adjustable, I usually set the rotor at 25BTDC and the cam sync at 70 BTDC, but that isn't critical as long as it's anywhere between 20-120 BTDC. Most people don't have a adjustable rotor, so I have them phase the rotor at 25 BTDC and let the cam sync fall where ever as long as it's at least 10 degrees away from the crank signal. It usually is around 30 BTDC.
If it's a new build, I recommend having the reluctor on the crank clocked to 50 degrees for a better ignition strategy. If that's done you will need to run an IPU strategy

If we move the crank reluctor to 50 then we can still use the IPU strategy with the factory hall effect sensor correct?

So in summary the XFI needs to have a crank signal reference of min 10 degrees to do base timing calculations and it needs the cam signal at least 10 degrees BEFORE the Crank signal...

 

[HighPSI]

If we move the crank reluctor to 50 then we can still use the IPU strategy with the factory hall effect sensor correct?

Yes, this is the best setup when it comes to signal and strategy.

So in summary the XFI needs to have a crank signal reference of min 10 degrees to do base timing calculations and it needs the cam signal at least 10 degrees BEFORE the Crank signal...

Yes, the crank signal needs to be at least 10 degrees away from your actual timing and the cam signal needs to be at least 10 degrees away from the crank signal.

 

[norbs]

Thanks for the info, but what is the exact advantage of re-clocking the balancer tab, over just leaving it at 10 degrees and using the DIS setting in the setup?

 

[HighPSI]

This is all strictly my opinion:

I do this because I think there could be less margin of error as engine speeds change.

If your crank reference angle is 10 degrees BTDC and the timing is 30 degrees, the ecu sees the crank signal and then waits 100 degrees of crank rotation to fire the next cylinder.
If your crank reference angle is 50 degrees BTDC and the timing is 30 degrees, the ecu sees the crank signal and then waits 20 degrees of crank rotation to fire that cylinder.

It is probably just splitting hairs since I have guys running real fast (in the 7's) with the stock ignition strategy, but I tell guys who are building the engine strictly for a distributor or CNP setup to do this.

 

[norbs]

OK good point. I still have to confirm do I keep it set on Buick DIS ignition even though I;m not using the DIS system with the distributor?