Buick V6 FAST XFI Crank and cam set up DIS and IPU configurations set up

[norbs]

I want to make sure I have this correct for everyone;s reference, so if something is incorrect lets set it straight.

If we are running the stock ignition system the following settings are to be used:

Buick DIS box checked in setup
Crank Reference angle in software 10 degrees, max timing we can run is 50 in this set up
Cam sensor is installed at 25 ATDC referenced from #1 TDC
The resulting CAM SYNC logged data should show 85 BTDC if installed right.
Inductive delay = 96 uS.
Cam precedes =#6
firing order 165432


If we are using a msd crank trigger and IPU cam and crank sensor with a distributor non-waste spark:

IPU mode checked
Crank Reference angle 50 degrees, sensor lined up centered in magnet at 50 degrees, max timing we could run is 40 in this set up.Single tooth centered in distributor
Cam sync can be set at any number from 60 degrees to 120 degrees referenced from #1 BTDC., But you would not want to be near 120 degrees since this would be the start of the next cylinder. I would suggest 80-85 degrees.
Inductive delay =40 uS
Cam precedes =#1 or #6??????????
firing order 165432

Note : items in red I need to have confirmed this is correct. Still a bit leery on the cam precedes number.

 

[pacecarta]

any idea why someone would have inductive delay at 200?

found this in a classic sequential box recently ( running a stock DIS ignition )

also found the injector opening time (ms) was set to 0.6 (had 75# injectors)

 

[kidglok]

my camsync shows 85, and bobs tr6 shows the rpms at 3000 in cam phase mode?

 

[we4Mateo]

my camsync shows 85, and bobs tr6 shows the rpms at 3000 in cam phase mode?

I think that is perfect by both measures.

 

[HighPSI]

I'll post my corrections/comments in purple.

I want to make sure I have this correct for everyone;s reference, so if something is incorrect lets set it straight.

If we are running the stock ignition system the following settings are to be used:

Buick DIS box checked in setup
Crank Reference angle in software 10 degrees, max timing we can run is 50 in this set up

10 Degrees is a "starting point: for those using a stock balancer. Always verify your timing with a light. If you are using a BHJ balancer I would start at 6 dgerees and verify.

Cam sensor is installed at 25 ATDC referenced from #1 TDC
The resulting CAM SYNC logged data should show 85 BTDC if installed right.
Inductive delay = 96 uS.

Although most tuners won't do it, I recommend verifying this with a timing light. I have seen discrepancies

Cam precedes =#6

If you are using firmware 1.34o or earlier use individual cylinder correction to verify what cylinder to preceed. On early flash's you will need to preceed cylinder 5. It would be best to reflash to a later version.

firing order 165432


If we are using a msd crank trigger and IPU cam and crank sensor with a distributor non-waste spark:

IPU mode checked

This is only true when using an afterwarket trigger. Since 99% use the factory trigger with my distributor adaptor, you will need to leave it as Buick DIS ignition. This is the only way to run a distributor with a Buick Classic FAST box.

Crank Reference angle 50 degrees, sensor lined up centered in magnet at 50 degrees, max timing we could run is 40 in this set up.

The magnet can be where ever you want (50-60 recommended). On a Buick setup it can be dificult to get exactly 50 depending on where the bracket is mounted. It can be as high as 62. Just remember max timing "should" be at least 10 degrees less then your Crank Refereance Angle. Regardless, YOU MUST VERIFY YOUR TIMING WITH A LIGHT and set your Crank Referance Angle accordingly.

If using the stock crank trigger with a distributor the CRA will be closer to 10 with a stock balancer and 6 with a BHJ. Either way you MUST VERIFY YOUR TIMING WITH A LIGHT.

Single tooth centered in distributor
Cam sync can be set at any number from 60 degrees to 120 degrees referenced from #1 BTDC., But you would not want to be near 120 degrees since this would be the start of the next cylinder. I would suggest 80-85 degrees.

You can set the cam signal where ever you want as long as it's not within 10 degrees of ANY crank signal. It can even be 120* BTDC if your using a 50 degree CRA. It does not have to preceed cylinder #1. This can be set in the firing order synchronization screen.

Note: If you are using a Classic FAST the Cam Signal must preceed cylinder 6
Inductive delay =40 uS

This is a great starting point, but always VERIFY WITH A TIMING LIGHT. If using a factory crank trigger it will be much higher depending on your voltage.

Cam precedes =#1 or #6??????????
It does not have to preceed cylinder #1. This can be set in the firing order synchronization screen.
firing order 165432

Note : items in red I need to have confirmed this is correct. Still a bit leery on the cam precedes number.

 

[larry33kc]

Sooooo should I check it with a timing light???????

Sorry had too LOL

I am wandering about that question for the inductive delay being at 200 also I have a few tunes where that is the case.

Now I need to get a light, I have three and not one of them will work on my car for some reason

Good info

 

[northerngn]

Sooooo should I check it with a timing light???????

Sorry had too LOL

I am wandering about that question for the inductive delay being at 200 also I have a few tunes where that is the case.

Now I need to get a light, I have three and not one of them will work on my car for some reason

Good info

I did with mine and I'm glad a did I just set the "test timing" to 10 deg cause thats an easy mark to find on the timing cover then adjusted the "starting point" of 10 deg crank ref and simply adjusted that number up and down until lines match up that way 23 des IS 23 degrees ect ect...

Not saying its the only way but thats what I did...
-Dan

 

[kidglok]

i actually meant 95 lol

 

[norbs]

I would like to thank Cal for his response, this has cleared up all the confusion that is floating around between XFI and classic fast for these settings which are not in real detail in the manual.

 

[HighPSI]

Thank you for posting up this information. I also want to publicly thank you for all your other tech help in this forum. I have been pretty covered up with outside obligations and not as available on this site as I should be.

 

[karolko]

Cal and Norbs,

i would like to extend this thread a little further if possible,

What settings are needed when using Cal's Individual coil setup (CNP) with a factory crank sensor and factory Cam sensor?

Thanks in advance

Adrian

 

[HighPSI]

Select IPU ignition
Crank referance angle will be your old CRA plus 45 degrees (verify with a light)
Inductive delay should be around 40 (verify with a light)
Can sync precedes cylinder 6

 

[karolko]

Hey Guys,

Adjusting the crank reference angle and checking it with a timing light i understand how to do, just modify the crankreference angle until the light and the XFI match up.

How do you verify the Inductive delay? What the hell is the inductive delay and what does it do? I tried to read up on in the help section but couldn't find anything. Just trying to understand everything clear-er. If possible.

Adrian

 

[kidglok]

Hey Guys,

Adjusting the crank reference angle and checking it with a timing light i understand how to do, just modify the crankreference angle until the light and the XFI match up.

How do you verify the Inductive delay? What the hell is the inductive delay and what does it do? I tried to read up on in the help section but couldn't find anything. Just trying to understand everything clear-er. If possible.

Adrian

inductive delay has a general setting for each setup
it basically compensates for delays that show up as retarted timing or advanced timing as the rpms increase, for example: if your timing is verified at 30* at 900 rpms, but at 4000 rpms the timing reads 28*- then you would increase the inductive delay untill the timing stays consistent throughout the rpm band.

what i did was locked the timing at 30* and verified at idle. Then when into the engine speed vs coolant temp table and raised the idle to check at 2k (beyond that you will have to hold the throttle), its a little nerve racking standing over an engine at 5000rpms with a timing light tho

like cal says, 40 is reccomended for ipu ignitions

 

[karolko]

okay great, thanks for the explaination,

so when i check the crank reference angle, what RPM ranges should i check them in? You mentioned 900 and 4000 RPM, but is there an ideal RPM. Is it dependant on what the motor revs to?

So start CRA at idle, adjust the CRA until the numbers on the light and the numbers on the XFI match up,
Raise RPM up to x,xxx RPM and check CRA again and adjust the inductive delay to fine tune if there are differences in the timing? or do i still play with the CRA to help things out?

Thanks in advance,

Adrian

 

[kidglok]

okay great, thanks for the explaination,

so when i check the crank reference angle, what RPM ranges should i check them in? You mentioned 900 and 4000 RPM, but is there an ideal RPM. Is it dependant on what the motor revs to?

So start CRA at idle, adjust the CRA until the numbers on the light and the numbers on the XFI match up,
Raise RPM up to x,xxx RPM and check CRA again and adjust the inductive delay to fine tune if there are differences in the timing? or do i still play with the CRA to help things out?

Thanks in advance,

Adrian

adjust the crank reference angle at idle only, once you verify again at the higher rpms then adjust the inductive delay, if it matches at idle but at 4000 rpm its retarded then increase the inductive delay. For that ignition you should be close at 40 which is reccomended but im not familiar with ipu. I know for mine (buick dis) i was matched at 900rpm (30*) but at 2000 it read 28*, i was also at 40us by accident so when i moved it to the reccomended 96 i was spot on.
if the crank reference angle is off that means the relucter ring on the balancer is off by that many degrees. In which case you would be correcting for it by adjusting the cra.

im sure cal will be able to clarify this because im not familiar with how his cnp setup works, i see he stated to add 45 to the old crank reference angle

 

[Blazer406]

I think it needs to be said that when talking about the cam sync preceeds cylinder setting.... that this setting isn't critical unless you are doing any type of individual cylinder fuel or timing corrections.

If you are using individual cylinder corrections, then the cam sync preceeds needs to be correct.

Here is why:

You want to add fuel to cylinder #3 and #4 by 3%..... and pull timing by 2 degrees.....so you go into the settings and have the XFI adding fuel to these cylinders...and pulling timing. If the cam sync preceeds cylinder is not correct, you will be correcting the wrong cylinder(s).... and if you are already close to the edge tuning..... it could mean a blown head gasket or worse.

To verify the cam sync preceeds is correct, zero out all individual cylinder timing trims......then adjust the base timing table so that you know what the timing should be.... verify the timing is what you set it to in the fast..... i.e. 30 deg or so if you are idling..... whatever you set your timing to in the base timing table and the fast is doing no other timing trims (afterstart or trim based on coolant temp). In this example you will have the timing light hooked to #1.... you should see #1 is 30 deg with a dial back timing light..... then go into the individual cylinder corrections..... and change #1 to trim 10 deg of timing...... then you should be able to adjust the dial back timing light and see #1 is now at 20 deg instead of 30 deg. If #1 didn't move..... you have the cam sync preceeds cylinder set wrong.

Am I making any sense?

 

[HighPSI]

The XFI does not do individual cylinder correction at idle so you will either need to open the throttle more or trick the TPS to read higher than idle. You can either do this in the TPS calibration table or by grabbing the tab on the TPS sensor and tricking it into reading higher

 

[Blazer406]

The XFI does not do individual cylinder correction at idle so you will either need to open the throttle more or trick the TPS to read higher than idle. You can either do this in the TPS calibration table or by grabbing the tab on the TPS sensor and tricking it into reading higher

I knew I was missing a piece of the puzzle.... I think we "tricked" it when we did it....

 

[norbs]

Also, a word of note, if you added fuel to a cyl based on a 15 lbs pass and then did a 30 lb pass your settings would probably be wrong. Also the Injector offset is the same way its only good for a certain rpm. So both of these nice features, need to be improved upon based on more than one variable to be really effective, maybe newer software will have this.