What does this Maintenance/Tech History tell me?

[SpeedRacerX]

I posted in another thread about this "stock" GN I bought.

I'm trying to decipher how this GN lived its life so far (originality, repairs, mods) and I've got some good clues. Could use some guidance from the guys who have been around here.

Vitals: '87, WE2, 94,xxx miles, I'm the 3rd owner, 1st owner in OH had it from July 88 till August 2014. Due to supposed illness or other distractions in the first owner's life, the car basically sat for the last 9 1/2 years. 2nd owner in NJ had it until yesterday. Misc. Factory Options - power antenna, HD battery, White letter tires, Tungsten Halogen Headlamps, Tilt Wheel, Cruise Control, Wipers w/Delay, Rear Defogger, 3.42 rear BUT not the LSD - darn it!

So, the car came with a log book of most of the maintenance the 1st owner did. I'll spare you the oil change, brakes, plugs, wires, filters, alignments and tire rotation stuff, etc. etc..

I'd like to share this list of repairs and mods to see if this stuff makes sense to you guys or should cause me concern!?!?

Here is the list by Approximate Mileage:

< 32,000 miles - nothing abnormal.
32,500 - 4 shocks
36,500 - replaced starter
44,300 - service transmission discharge & replaced expansion tube
44,700 - fuel filter
45,500 - new exhaust
51,700 - idle speed control motor, heater & radiator hoses, thermostat gasket, removed exhaust manifold and welded pipes, replace turbo vacuum hoses, crank case filter, serpentine belt, replace water pump, repacked front wheel bearings.
52,200 - replaced turbo, adjusted TPS, insulated AC lines
53,500 - new battery
54,700 - 4 new shocks
56,600 - oxygen sensor
57,600 - manifold air sensor (code 23)
58,000 - idler arm
63,200 - fuel filter, add 1 quart of oil (hmmm)
63,900 - put "NEW" in quotes Turbo, adjust TPS, change the PROM I.D. ACXA 0942.
64,300 - factory recall of PROM, found out about erratic idle cold stall problem. Use gas under 87 octane. Under???
65,000 - installed Mass Airflow Sensor, 160 degree thermostat, Stage 2 chip, adjust Turbo.
67,500 - wheel bearings
70,100 - transmission service, check rear end
70,200 - heater control valve
71,700 - replace right rear wheel bearing and seal
73,100 - fuel filter
73,900 - new gear shifter knob
76,300 - serviced transmission
77,600 - new battery
78,200 - undercoated doors
78,400 - new brake booster motor, new oxygen sensor
78,900 - brake accumulator pressure switch and an accumulator
79,700 - power steering pump
79,800 - injector cleaner
80,500 - valve cover gaskets, repacked wheel bearings, replaced wheel seals
82,300 - STP treatment
84,600 - new muffler
86,000 - 6 R46TS plugs
88,500 - reseal transmission, rear main seal, oil pan gaskets, pinion seal
88,600 - water pump
89,000 - new muffler pipes, four of them
93,100 (May 2002) - changed over to Mobil1

2nd owner did Spring Cleaning stuff, NOS Y-Pipe, new hoses, Scan master and FP gauge under hood just in last 7 months.

I'm trying to figure out 2 primary things: 1) did I buy a problem or well-maintained car by someone who kept up on things and 2) how modded might this car be.

It does have a choppy idle but I don't know if that's normal. I haven't been able to dig into it yet because I got it here late yesterday and it snowed today!

Thank you for any insight!

 

[ALBERTAN]

The PROM recall was back in '92. This car wasn't sold until July '88, and proceeded to rack up 65K miles in Ohio in 4 years, making me suspect it was driven in the rust belt in the winter. It's also odd that the doors were undercoated at 78K miles...what's under there?

Also, unless the second owner changed it, it looks like you have a Hypertech Stage 2 chip in the ECM. That is a bomb waiting to go off. 22* timing and 17 lbs boost on today's fuel = BOOM! I wouldn't be fooled into thinking you can just change the oil and get on it. Hopefully the second owner didn't either. Makes me wonder why he sold it after only seven months personally.

Also, looks to me like it sat for closer to 12 years. I'd go back to square one with that car regarding Spring Cleaning and stuff before I leaned on it too hard.

 

[SpeedRacerX]

The PROM recall was back in '92. This car wasn't sold until July '88, and proceeded to rack up 65K miles in Ohio in 4 years, making me suspect it was driven in the rust belt in the winter. It's also odd that the doors were undercoated at 78K miles...what's under there?

Also, unless the second owner changed it, it looks like you have a Hypertech Stage 2 chip in the ECM. That is a bomb waiting to go off. 22* timing and 17 lbs boost on today's fuel = BOOM! I wouldn't be fooled into thinking you can just change the oil and get on it. Hopefully the second owner didn't either. Makes me wonder why he sold it after only seven months personally.

Also, looks to me like it sat for closer to 12 years. I'd go back to square one with that car regarding Spring Cleaning and stuff before I leaned on it too hard.

I find the undercoating odd as well except there is hardly any rust anywhere on this car, other than 1 piece of the exhaust pipe. Shocks me. No signs of covering anything else up either.

I am able to verify with the maintenance logs that show mileage and dates PLUS the Auto Check history report plus the title that it did sit for 9 1/2 years. As far as the 2nd owner..... spent a lot of time with him. Car guy but fell on some tough times recently due to his wife's job so this new toy (one of 5 he had) was the first to go. He had plans for it till life changes happened.

Chips..... Yes, I'm worried about this, combined with the rough idle. The 2nd owner showed me a bag with several chips in it. He said the stock chip is installed. I'll find out shortly. PS: log does show chip recall in for service on 6/30/1992.

Thank you for this input. Great stuff. I'll find out more as soon as I can pull it outside tomorrow or Sunday.

 

[SpeedRacerX]

OK, so I couldn't wait till tomorrow so I grabbed the bag from the trunk.

I found the original thermostat which leads me to believe the 160 degree thermo is still in the car.

I also found two Hypertech chips - looks like Stage 1 and Stage 2. It appears the 2nd owner is probably right that the factory chip is in the car. Here is the pic of the chips I found.

 

[ALBERTAN]

Save the chip carriers and stomp on those chips ASAP. The factory chip isn't much better. If you pull the cover off the ECM in the PS footwell, you can tell for sure what chip it has in less than five minutes. You're going to need a different chip regardless by the sound of it. Turbo Tweak is probably your best bet.

Just go easy on the car until you have gone through it and you should be fine. I don't mean to sound harsh. But putting a good sense of fear into newbie owners of these cars is never a bad idea.

 

[Nigel]

Without some pictures of critical areas the car sounds pretty good. A turbo tweak chip for a stock car will cure your chip problems. You can search around, but understanding the car, the basic mods for reliability, and what the common TR issues are will help you. It sounds like the car mechanically is in good shape, that does not mean it runs optimal. The fun part about these cars is learning the car and tuning it. Make sure the boost is low and get a good chip, then dial it in. You can dial up the boost once make sure everything is in good working order.

 

[TexasT]

But putting a good sense of fear into newbie owners of these cars is never a bad idea.

Without fear you have headgasket replacement(or worse).

I'd replace all the vacuum line, put in a new fuel filter and as above hit tt for a new tunable chip.
Has the waste gate rod been cut n threaded? Boost gauge installed?

 

[SpeedRacerX]

Without some pictures of critical areas the car sounds pretty good. A turbo tweak chip for a stock car will cure your chip problems. You can search around, but understanding the car, the basic mods for reliability, and what the common TR issues are will help you. It sounds like the car mechanically is in good shape, that does not mean it runs optimal. The fun part about these cars is learning the car and tuning it. Make sure the boost is low and get a good chip, then dial it in. You can dial up the boost once make sure everything is in good working order.

Yup. Been reading like crazy all week and most of what I'm learning makes sense. Downloaded the Scanmaster guide so I can check those readings this weekend. I'm looking forward to getting an optimal baseline on it and then carefully going up from there. I'll inventory the critical items this weekend.

 

[SpeedRacerX]

Without fear you have headgasket replacement(or worse).

I'd replace all the vacuum line, put in a new fuel filter and as above hit tt for a new tunable chip.
Has the waste gate rod been cut n threaded? Boost gauge installed?

I'll check the rod, not sure. There is no boost gauge installed and I see no evidence of prior gauges, pods, mounting holes in places there shouldn't be, etc.
TT chip seems like it should be high on the list as I'm stabilizing this thing.

 

[dynoman]

X2 on the vacuum lines , vacuum leaks will drive you crazy when trying to tune .

 

[SpeedRacerX]

X2 on the vacuum lines , vacuum leaks will drive you crazy when trying to tune .

Got it. Will do. Restored and sold a rare '89 Carroll Supercharged 350 VHO Formula with a Paxton Supercharger and Meth injection - a vacuum leak and weird idle drove me nuts for a bit until I found it.

 

[SpeedRacerX]

I'm probably kidding myself that I won't mod this car a bit. But am I screwed because this car does not have the LSD option?

 

[ALBERTAN]

Lots of the fastest cars didn't come with the G80 option. Toss an Eaton in and you're golden.

I'll add changing the fuel pump ASAP to your to do list. Looks like you still have the original, which is marginal for a stock car. Yours is 27 years old and sat dunked in 10 year old fuel. And you will mod the car...everyone does. A good, reliable fuel system is essential for these cars. Upgrade the pump to a Walbro or Deutschworks while you're in there.

 

[GNRick]

Include a hotwire kit and zddplus. Might also want to replace body bushings and front sway bar bushings.

 

[dynoman]

When you get that Hotwire kit make sure you get the intermidiate harness from the hotwire relay to the sending unit on top of the tank and the in-tank wires to the pump. That will have heavier wires and a new bulkhead connector which is known for bad connections . This is fun helping you spend your money !!

http://www.racetronix.biz/customkititems.asp?kc=BCWA-G77&eq=
http://www.racetronix.biz/customkititems.asp?kc=BCWA-G7U&eq=

The first harness is for walbro pumps and the second one is universal . Get the one that matches the pump you get ..... Sam

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

That maintenance list makes ZERO sense to me. There's something wrong with the original owner. Shocks at 32 grand, then again at 54? Why? Even crap shocks last longer than that. Weird. Starter at 36? Really? Fuel filter at 44? IAC, heater hoses, thermostat gasket, vac lines, serp belt, water pump at 51 grand? Wtf. Turbo at 52? Really? What did you do to this thing man??? New AC lines? Why? What were you messing around with?? New battery at 53? Idler arm at 58? Idler arm?? What did you run over? You used under 87 octane gas in a GN? In the summer too??? With a stock t-stat too? Ooo boy. New maf at 65? Wheel bearings at 67? Heater water valve at 70? More wheel bearings at 71? Gear shift knob at 73? Another battery at 77? Why? Power steering pump at 79? Valve cover gaskets at 80? New muffler again at 84? Reseal trans-again? What were you doing in there? Another water pump at 88? More muffler pipes? WOW!! What in THE hell was this guy doing???

Bro, all this stuff is like 90,000 mile area. I've had cars completely factory, with none of these problems. This makes ZERO sense to me. Either this car was a TOTAL AND COMPLETE lemon, or the local shop had this guy's head hook line & sinker, & convinced him this stuff was needed, or he convinced himself it was needed and did it himself but failed at it requiring the parts to be re-done again. Or the shop was shoddy forcing him to re-do their repairs himself (done it a MILLION times myself). But NONE of this stuff needed to be touched at the miles that it was. I realize there are some factory defects but DAM MAN. All this on one car? I started thinking this was either a joke from the beginning, or a joke from the last owner screwing with the new owner. I've had cars for years and never broke a gear shifter, much less a turbo, idler arm, heater water valve or thermostat gasket. I can't figure this out.

How long have you had this car? I'd go back to square one if I were you. First off, before you do ANYthing else and waste your time & money, pull an oil sample and send it to Blackstone labs immediately. If it comes back good then do the following: put a mity vac on it and see what it pulls for vacuum. You want to see a steady 20 inches or more on the needle at warm idle. Then do a leakdown and compression test. If that comes back within specs, proceed. If not, you know what you gotta do next If it's good, put all the stock shit on if it's not already, put in a TT chip, do the fuel system upgrades, (don't use that pour in fuel injector cleaner, it's totally worthless man) pull the injectors to verify what they are then have them cleaned and flowed and re-install them. If they're factory they could be malfunctioning and you'd have one hell of a headache chasin that problem. After that, pull your air intake hose and check it for leaks (you'd start chasing your tail if that thing has a small hole you can't see in it. Don't even start the car again without doing this) If it has any holes, replace it. Install a scan master next. If you don't you're running blind and all of this is totally worthless. Once that's on, do your tps/iac and make sure they're doing what they're supposed to be doing.
That new chip with the rebuilt injectors and good running fuel system should make it idle pretty nice providing there's no vac leaks. (to be cont.)

 

[Pronto]

You can get an Eaton posi in there no problem. I had an open diff. Going with the Eaton was one of the best things I ever did. I'ld replace the fuel pump with a 255, and do the hotwire kit and filter too.

 

[SpeedRacerX]

That maintenance list makes ZERO sense to me. There's something wrong with the original owner. Shocks at 32 grand, then again at 54? Why? Even crap shocks last longer than that. Weird. Starter at 36? Really? Fuel filter at 44? IAC, heater hoses, thermostat gasket, vac lines, serp belt, water pump at 51 grand? Wtf. Turbo at 52? Really? What did you do to this thing man??? New AC lines? Why? What were you messing around with?? New battery at 53? Idler arm at 58? Idler arm?? What did you run over? You used under 87 octane gas in a GN? In the summer too??? With a stock t-stat too? Ooo boy. New maf at 65? Wheel bearings at 67? Heater water valve at 70? More wheel bearings at 71? Gear shift knob at 73? Another battery at 77? Why? Power steering pump at 79? Valve cover gaskets at 80? New muffler again at 84? Reseal trans-again? What were you doing in there? Another water pump at 88? More muffler pipes? WOW!! What in THE hell was this guy doing???

Bro, all this stuff is like 90,000 mile area. I've had cars completely factory, with none of these problems. This makes ZERO sense to me. Either this car was a TOTAL AND COMPLETE lemon, or the local shop had this guy's head hook line & sinker, & convinced him this stuff was needed, or he convinced himself it was needed and did it himself but failed at it requiring the parts to be re-done again. Or the shop was shoddy forcing him to re-do their repairs himself (done it a MILLION times myself). But NONE of this stuff needed to be touched at the miles that it was. I realize there are some factory defects but DAM MAN. All this on one car? I started thinking this was either a joke from the beginning, or a joke from the last owner screwing with the new owner. I've had cars for years and never broke a gear shifter, much less a turbo, idler arm, heater water valve or thermostat gasket. I can't figure this out.

How long have you had this car? I'd go back to square one if I were you. First off, before you do ANYthing else and waste your time & money, pull an oil sample and send it to Blackstone labs immediately. If it comes back good then do the following: put a mity vac on it and see what it pulls for vacuum. You want to see a steady 20 inches or more on the needle at warm idle. Then do a leakdown and compression test. If that comes back within specs, proceed. If not, you know what you gotta do next If it's good, put all the stock shit on if it's not already, put in a TT chip, do the fuel system upgrades, (don't use that pour in fuel injector cleaner, it's totally worthless man) pull the injectors to verify what they are then have them cleaned and flowed and re-install them. If they're factory they could be malfunctioning and you'd have one hell of a headache chasin that problem. After that, pull your air intake hose and check it for leaks (you'd start chasing your tail if that thing has a small hole you can't see in it. Don't even start the car again without doing this) If it has any holes, replace it. Install a scan master next. If you don't you're running blind and all of this is totally worthless. Once that's on, do your tps/iac and make sure they're doing what they're supposed to be doing.
That new chip with the rebuilt injectors and good running fuel system should make it idle pretty nice providing there's no vac leaks. (to be cont.)

This is exactly the type of feedback I want though reality can be scary.

What I'm hoping for...is that the original owner was neurotic. I know car guys like this. What I showed you were only the things that jumped out at me. Literally, there is a log book entry every couple weeks or few thousand miles for about 15 years. He changed stuff way ahead of normal schedules.

We'll see.

 

[Pronto]

Depending on where it was serviced he might have been duped too...

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

That's what I'm guessing. I'm diagnosed with ocpd, and I can spot trends in others that mimic my own habits. I think it was that plus a little duping mixed in there as well. With a genuinely neurotic person, that would be super easy to do. Doing things ahead of schedule can be good, but then again it can make your car go in the opposite direction when you start dikin around with shit you shouldn't be. You start opening up cans of worms and it can make things worse. If you get a good condition diagnosis from the things I told you it should put you in the right direction.