very slow 60' times

[denn454]

i've asked this before, it was quite a while before and since then i've learned a lot about my car, a lot of the stuff i heard before didnt' make any since and didnt' help me much.

so i'm asking being more specific. My 60' times flat out suck. 2.5-2.4 is normal, 2.3 has been the best and have only happend twice out of probably 40 runs.

I have a 3" dp and a cutout. street chip, i think 23* of timing. normally on a pretty well stock car that whould work out to something like a 1.7-1.9 or something right?

I do know my divers header is cracked, not bad, the sound from it is barely noticeable once the car is warmed up with the hood closed. even with the hood open and a cold engine its still not loud by any means, but you definatly would notice it.
Could that little crack slow me down that much?

and yes i am launching it the way it should be, stand on the brake and gas at the same time, i leave at about 3# at the track, sometimes more sometimes less. thats about all it will build.

trap speeds are a respectable ~102 which from what i have seen from other people should equal out to a mid-low 13.

any ideas?

 

[turbosam6]

Is it bad because of tire spin? Or does it just not make power? My car used to chug off the line a few years ago, because it was too rich. It would lean out after a few feet, and pick up. This also made it spool slow. A bigger convertor, and some tuning with fuel pressure and chips made it better. Now it just spins....

 

[sixgun86gn]

You need to leave on more boost.60' time is all about power.I would fix the problems and tighten up the brakes and try leaving @10#.Thats what works for me.

 

[GNSS]

I would fix that header crack. No matter how small you think it is it will slow your spool big time.

I ran my first 12.9x run at 102.xxMPH

Jeff

 

[denn454]

no wheel spin at all. it will give me a little chirp shifting into 2nd but no real loss of traction. I have leaned it out a bit since the last time i wa at the track and it really did make a noticeable difference down low so that might be a contributing factor, i just don't want to go too lean untill i have a turbo link to really see whats going on. I have a spare set of headers that are also cracked, i'll patch them up as soon as i get some more argon for the welder and swap them out, that is if the bolts aren't completely rusted on. if they are i might have to say forget about it. if that is the case would a little bit of jb weld work or will it just be blown off? I know its not the right way to do things, but thats if the headers wont' come off.

the tires dont' try to slip at the line, i just can't build more than 4# of boost if i'm really really lucky i might be able to leave at 6#, thats what i did to get my 2.3, but i just sat there after the lights went letting it build boost. i think my reaction time was 2 seconds

Thanks!

 

[Slow91z]

JB weld will just melt off, our exhaust can get up 1700 degrees.

Dang man I had a cracked header and I could build all of the boost I wanted on the line...You have some major spool up issues, and either the crack is worse then you think or something else is going on...Either way G/L with it.

 

[ITSNOTAGN]

Yeah you are definately slow on the line. i leave at 6#, with no spin at all. that crack is a big problem. mine is cracked too, but doesnt leak at all. youll find a major difference in spool time with that fixed. and yes jbweld will work, just prep it good. get that turbolink!

 

[Slow91z]

Dude Powercoat melts off of these things...JB weld won't work.

Do a search this has been brought up before.

 

[rb68rr]

What tires? Stock torque convertor? Someone may have put the wrong convertor in it. Should have D5 stamped all around it.

 

[denn454]

yep, stock stall converter, i'd like to get a 3200 but it will have to wait. tires are 235/60/15. everything looks like it should be ok. leaning it out some will probably help and its an easy thing to do.

i'll fix the headers as soon as i can....

any other ideas, i'm thinking its probably more than that but i don't know what to look for.

 

[rb68rr]

Are you running pump gas or race gas? The 23 degree chip is a little much for pump gas. How much boost are you running? I ran the times below with a Thrasher 108 chip, 20 lbs of boost, c-16 race fuel, MT ET's, and leaving at 8 lbs. of boost. 60 ft. times were 1.818.

 

[murphster]

My first time ever out at the track in the GN I had a 2.0 60ft leaving with no boost on regular radial T/A's. The car was running 15 lbs boost with a thrasher and blue tops on 93 octane, but besides that it was stock (oh yeah, hot wired Walbro fuel pump too). Car still had stock downpipe and exhaust, so I doubt power was too much different. Ran a high 13 at less than 100mph (left it in overdrive).

I don't think your problem is that you cannot leave with enough boost. If the car is running good you should still have some low 2's for the 60ft even leaving with no boost. I bet the problem is more related to other issues, probably the cracked header not giving you enough power to run a lower 60ft.

I doubt you will get lower than a 2.0 with regular radials and a pretty much stock setup at stock boost, but I think you should be able to get a 2.1 or so.

Of course, worst case, you are running 93 octane with a chip that has too much timing and you are getting a lot of knock. Be careful about that. Maybe you can add some Xylene to get the octane up and see if that helps. I wouldn't add leaded gas since you don't have a scan tool and you won't know whats up if the O2 sensor goes.

May be a used scanmaster or knock gauge will help you out. Also an upgraded fuel pump and fuel pressure gauge and then you can think about turning up the boost a little and getting the 60ft's down some and get into the lower 13's. A few hundred $ or less and you can be safe and faster. Look for some deals online and for now get the header fixed and try some higher octane. I wouldn't turn up the boost or lean it out anymore without a scan tool.

Just some ideas.

 

[XLR8]

I notice you race where there is no air to spool the turbo. Get the cracked header(s) fixed. Make sure you are not to rich. Also try spooling your turbo where you live. I could spool my te-44 with the stock converter in Denver (5280') but not at Bandamire (5800'). I had no problems spooling the stock turbo at Bandamire but I had no header leaks and my car was tuned well. Make sure there is no exhaust restriction anywhere and that you intercooler is clean and flowing well. Also make sure your air cleaner is clean. We need all the air we can get up here.

 

[sixgun86gn]

Read Race Jaces bio on the front page.He talks about cars at elevation like where he lives neading less fuel and more stall to run as fast as the guys at lower elevation.

 

[1ARUNEM]

As mentioned, if you are running a stock convertor, make sure you have the CORRECT "D5" convertor..

One of my previous stockers had a replacement stock convertor that was (D7 if memory serves) wrong. When I put the correct convertor in the difference was VERY noticeable..

Goodluck..

 

[Jimn8or]

Fix the header properly.
Run slicks.
Report back.
Jim
All the hope and want on the planet isn't going to give you a 1.7 60' on street tires.

 

[denn454]

i'm sure the altitude is hurting me, theres no question about that, and its something that as much as i would like to, i can't controll.

at the track i'm running 110 octane with 20# and 0 knock. i have a better fuel pump, dont' know for sure what it is, i'm guessing its the "high performance pump" from postons. should be equivelent to a walbro 304, not great but enough. I do have a denso 02, so no worries about the occasional leaded fuel.

even if i threw a set of slicks on right now it wouldnt' do me any good, i don't have any wheel spin at all, 0, nada, zilch. its really frusterating. i'm to the point right now to where i'm ready to just use my nitrous nozzel that was going to be for alky for nitrous to help out with the launch. i guess thats an option, but i'd rather fix the problem. i'll get the headers taken care of this weekend, i hope.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Listen to the guys who are saying torque converter. If you know for a fact that it's the one that came in the car then you are O.K. But if you are not the original owner and the transmission has been out then there is a real good chance it has the wrong converter. Even if it has D5 on it, it can still be the wrong one. If you leave on boost and it won't spin then it has to be this.

Fix the header leak.

You can test the converter by putting the e-brake on and holding the foot brake while flooring the accelerator. If it builds all the boost you want then it's O.K. But I bet it won't get over 3-5 lbs. We've seen at least 5 cars locally over the years like this and they all had the wrong converter.

Either the converter or it's a combination of the tune being way rich along with the header leak making it spool veeeerrryy slow.

 

[turbot2496]

i'm to the point right now to where i'm ready to just use my nitrous nozzel that was going to be for alky for nitrous to help out with the launch. i guess thats an option

This is NOT an option.

 

[KEVINS]

My guess:

1. Bad tune.
2. You do not know how to build boost "properly" for your car.

I launch with 15-16psi of boost BUT if I just floor it I can't build more than 3-5 psi of boost NO MATTER how long I sit there.
Don't floor it. Stand on the brakes like you HATE it and your face looks like this . Then hold the accelerator about 1/4-2/3 of the way down and WAIT. This may take several seconds (10 seconds?) depending on tune. Let the boost build to around 8-10psi then floor the pedal and WAIT until the brakes can't hold the car still. The boost should go to at least 12psi if everything is good.

Regards
ks