Turbo V6 Camaro

[Jon Early]

More progress. It may seem minor from the outside looking in, but demodifying a car you didn't put together as inexpensively as possible is kind of a puzzle!

I know I don't exactly care about performance for this rebuild, but I'll do the easy free stuff!

I managed to find all the original supercharger bolts and stock fuel rails in a box that came with the car. That's a relief. Now I need to eliminate the elbow.

Squeaky clean brand new throttle. I don't remember the story about why he bought this, but it couldn't have been cheap!

Looking stockish again! I found the original oil fill neck too, so I threw that on there. I was going to put the billet ZZP cap up for sale, but after feeling how nice of a part it is, I think I'm going to keep it for myself.

If I can personalize it with a power six or tri-shield, I'm all about it. Sure enough, the badge is just glued on. Sweet! I knew this car would start paying itself back.

I sold the stainless log manifold last week, and the A-pillar gauge pods sold today. After replacing the log manifold with a stock one ($20), shipping costs ($30), and PayPal fees I've reclaimed about $80, a cool oil cap, a nice intake manifold, a wideband for the GN, two scan gauges, and a full stack intercooler kit. I'll have some of these parts for sale on Facebook, and I think the car will still be worth more than I paid when I'm finished with the the engine installation. Afterall, it's still a Comp G with 120k miles, minimal rust, and an F-body brake conversion. Will the money have been worth my time? Not really, but it's a learning experience. The parts proceeds will go directly toward Camaro suspension parts. Whatever money I get for the car will go towards a down payment on a tow vehicle.

 

[dezldave961]

Without getting too overly custom, yes, I'd just run a breather. My config of choice is an LS1 oil cap elbow, to hold the breather vertical to keep it from dripping any oil. Fiero swappers sometimes like the Series 3 oil neck, because it's got a 2" rise above the angle to make it easier to access by their trunk wall.

 

[dezldave961]

Main thing with plugging those dumb coolant ports for the TB, is to hog out the side panel behind the cap (under TB, near EGR inlet).

See messy example from some guy that's totally not me, and totally not running on my car the last 2yrs.

 

[Jon Early]

It's too bad. I really wish I could find a practical purpose for this Intercooler system. I thought about compounding the Camaro with twin intercoolers or just switching the lower intake and building a custom plenum for turbo only. However, these are only things that complicate a very fun and simple car for no good reason. Therefore, I'm going to sell the entire system as a kit if anyone is interested.

I want this engine back in the car by the end of the week if possible, and I want to do whatever I can to avoid the process becoming a greasy mess. I brought a pressure washer over to my buddies place last week and shot all the grime off the subframe. Yesterday, I cleaned up the engine, harvested more intercooler parts, took inventory of all the bolts I need to replace, and buttoned up some other odds and ends.

One revelation I had was that this car had some nice factory black supercharged valve covers. Normally I wouldn't care, but I'm not going to be able to reuse the aluminum L36 covers when I swap heads on the Camaro. The valve covers that came with the heads were pretty banged up, so it makes sense to clean those up a bit and throw them on the flip car instead. Here's one ready for a quick paint job.

I put some leftover GN header paint on the new rear manifold too.

I'm not sure what the odds of successfully removing two old exhaust studs are, but I'm happy it worked out! Fire is fun.

For some reason the EGR block plate fits in the new manifold a lot better than the original.

The previous owner bought these risers for the coil pack because the belt wouldn't clear with the full stack intercooler without a belt wrap. I'll include these with the intercooler.

Cleaning time

I can finally touch everything on this engine without seriously regretting it. lol I'm going to swing by the car on the way home today and grab a few more parts. Th plan is to remove the bumper so I can harness the front mount heat exchanger, circulation pump, and wiring. I'll try to get the tensioner, alternator, and coolant elbows installed as well. I'm officially tired of seeing this thing in my garage and worrying about whether it's going to make any compression in cylinder 3, so getting the intercooler out and putting this engine back in is my main focus.

Since this IS the Camaro thread I feel like I need to say something about it in every update. It's not much but it's something.

I had an old flex plate in the basement which would never get used for anything, so I cut it up with the intents of building a crank holding tool. It might be overkill, but I generally work alone. I don't know how I would torque the cam bolt to spec and hold the crank with a prybar at the same time. I would probably break a flywheel tooth anyway. As of right now the plan is to weld them to a bracket that goes in place of the starter. it should engage with 10ish teeth as long at the whole tool doesn't flex. I hope I can build this once and be happy I have it down the road.

 

[dezldave961]

Man, you make it difficult to remember what to respond to with these mega updates!!! Glad you're knocking stuff out, though, since I'm dragging my feet on ~1hr of work whenever I get back around to it.

For the crank hold, I usually just resort to carefully positioned vise grips on the flexplate against the bellhousing ear, but that's for autos. Do whatever you think will be safe for you and the parts.

Lookin' clean, and ya those risers are something we've all had to do for that bracket on an I/C'd car at some point. I run the H-body/Bonnie bracket on mine for a little more belt wrap, but I've helped a few buddies space their ICM that way in years past.

Rear mani looks great, and those studs are 50/50 whether their heat/rust condition will let them go without a fight or snapping off. A torch and/or some generous PB use will usually permit the 5.5 or 7mm(?) or a double-nut process to get them out.

 

[Jon Early]

Man, you make it difficult to remember what to respond to with these mega updates!!! Glad you're knocking stuff out, though, since I'm dragging my feet on ~1hr of work whenever I get back around to it.

For the crank hold, I usually just resort to carefully positioned vise grips on the flexplate against the bellhousing ear, but that's for autos. Do whatever you think will be safe for you and the parts.

Lookin' clean, and ya those risers are something we've all had to do for that bracket on an I/C'd car at some point. I run the H-body/Bonnie bracket on mine for a little more belt wrap, but I've helped a few buddies space their ICM that way in years past.

Rear mani looks great, and those studs are 50/50 whether their heat/rust condition will let them go without a fight or snapping off. A torch and/or some generous PB use will usually permit the 5.5 or 7mm(?) or a double-nut process to get them out.

Thanks! I try to make my posts worthwhile. haha Putting a little extra labor into cleaning parts, prettying them up, and fixing the all the leaks makes feel like less of a scum bag for selling a car with known potentially crippling issues. However, I also have to remember that I bought this thing not running and plan to sell it running, leak free, and for the same price albeit without some of the expensive modifications. That seems like a fair deal to me as long as it goes to somebody who wants a toy and not a daily driver. It obviously ran with this score for a long time, so who's to say that the engine still won't outlast the transmission or body?

 

[Jon Early]

The Gran Prix really should have been put in a separate thread because the plot is thickening.
Intercooler was removed. If anybody is looking for one, send me a PM.

Time to get this thing installed.

Park brake locked up, so it took a while just to get the car in the garage.

After a few nights of cussing in some extreme heat, I got the engine installed, repaired a couple broken wire pigtails, improvised a PCV system, and whole lot of other BS.

At this point I thought I could throw some coolant in the radiator, drive it home, and sell it.

This booster hose worked perfectly!

 

[Jon Early]

An old Volvo drain plug works great as a wideband delete plug too.

However, the car had some crippling issues. I went to fill the coolant and found it dumping out the crossover. The previous owner of this intake gooped it on with RTV. No biggie, I had that gasket at the house and it's an easy fix.

Not so much is the fact that the car was burning coolant and shooting steam out the tail pipes. Maybe my reused head bolts and intake gaskets were a bad idea. Not sure if I'm going to bother fixing that or not. I may do some tests and go from there, but I have bigger issues.

Other than a light tapping noise, the car ran smooth and felt more powerful than before. I was actually pretty impressed, but about a mile before making it home, it all ended.

I was cruising at about 55mph when the tach went to zero and I had no more power steering or brakes! The engine died and would not restart. Whatever was causing the car to not run when I first got it is back, and I'm now forced to do some more digging. I'm betting there's an issue with the ICM harness. The corrosion damage is pretty bad and we found there to be no spark or injector pulses the first time around. The one on the car has butt connectors all over it already and I have a new one in my stash. I just don't look forward to working around everything in the way!

 

[dezldave961]

Ya, these cars have gotten into so many hands and treated like garbage for 20yrs now, so I'm having to shine a light on this for most newer 3800 vehicle owners. Even the crusty Camaro we worked on here may get tossed in favor of a less hacked-up one for my co-worker to enjoy.

Just because you have the ability to fix troublesome cars, doesn't mean you have the time/money/willpower to deal with it as life moves onward. (speaking of, I may have just bought a new-to-me project vehicle, but that'll come out in my own postings).

 

[Jon Early]

This car is prime examples of why every vehicle should be chosen extremely carefully. lol I can't wait to see what you build next!

Last night was strange. I was going to try diagnosing the issue again, but the issue was gone. Stupid car.

I shook the harness a bunch to try to make the engine run bad or shut off, but no such thing happened. Figures. Progress must continue though. A great selling point for cheap cars is working AC.

It holds vacuum and blows colder than any other car I own.

 

[Jon Early]

I decided that that knowing the car wouldn't start initially doe to no injector pulse or spark, it was enough cause to throw a crank sensor at it. I had a couple used spares in a drawer anyway.

Only time will tell if that's the end all fix, but I'm pretty confident that it was. The car starts up a lot quicker and it seems to be idling smoother too! I feel like I can sell this car with a decent conscience now. After four days since charging the AC, I still have cold air too. If I can find a chewed wire to the EBCM causing messages for ABS, TSC, and variable effort steering, somebody is going to end up with a pretty decent car for not much money. If not, I still think it will be a decent deal.

 

[dezldave961]

Sometimes the ABS wires break right at the grommet into the hub, if you don't see anything along the harness. They'll also fail internally, on occasion, if you're able to monitor each wheel speed (wish I had a way to do that, for multiple reasons).

 

[Jon Early]

Luckily that's not my problem anymore. I sold the Pontiac last night for $2k with gnarly piston slap. I think I can thank my hone job for that. The new owner now has TWO black '04 GTP Comp Gs. I was initially going to wait until I got home from my vacation, but I really didn't want to think about that all week. Now I can relax and enjoy the next steps of my Camaro and GN.

 

[Jon Early]

I'm back from my vacation and very glad to have been paid. Having that car out of my life is a huge relief! I'm bringing Camaro stuff back into this thread.

I really want to get this engine back together, so that I don't have pieces laying everywhere. Victor Reinz gaskets, ZZP studs, and teflon tape are off the shelf!

Intense Stage 3 CNC ported heads are installed with moly lube in the nuts. 45 then 70 then 85 ft/lbs applied.

I've had these heads for a year and never bothered to figure out what springs were in them. I decided to remove one and take it to work. I'll have to measure for pushrod length anyway.

Interesting! It appears that I have options! Before I found these heads, I bought a set of 150s to put in my stock heads. I'm wondering if these will be a better fit.

It's not the only part of these heads I have questions about though. I have no idea what's up with these locks and retainers. They aren't the right color to be ZZPs hardened units, but I don't know what else ZZP does to them. I thought they also raised the seat height to accept LS valve springs. I'll have to pull my old heads apart and a stock one to compare. I might also want to check the install height incase these valve seats have been ground down. I'm not really looking forward to all that, but I'm excited to be making progress on my toys again.

 

[dezldave961]

Parts are looking good. I've also been doing all fresh valvetrain measurements, the at home versions.

ZZP has been outsourcing most of their current offerings, in recent years. As long as you know you have the LS retainer type (measure slightly different than stock), you're fine for the upgraded LS type springs. Locks are pretty interchangeable, as long as they seat properly. I think I've only changed from stock once on my old GTP engine, when I didn't realize it wasn't needed.

Just finished chasing install heights with a shim set from Speedway Motors (thankfully, they're just an hour away, so it's like same-day shipping for an afternoon trip). The process can either take a couple hours or a couple days, depending on how long you want to take and stay undistracted. I have a page full of notes, because I was also replacing exhaust valves and lapping everything after ~15yrs and ~50-60+k of use.

Hope you have better luck with the graphites and ARPs than I used to in the 10sec '03 Impala years ago. He'd go to the track with MattM from ZZP and push them out with 25-30psi, until he would drop money on MLSs (only Cometics back then, ZZPs are a little nicer). Not sure if the graphites are a bigger fan of stock bolt clamping versus stud, or it was just pushing them so hard in a 600+whp build... also, Fel-pro's & Mahle's seem to have much less of a metal sealing ring than others, so I have faith. Might even pick a set of some up instead of re-using my ZZP MLSs with copper spray, but maybe I'll wait until they push. Just getting on the road for Ice Cream Cruise here in 2wks.

 

[MikeS]

Parts are looking good. I've also been doing all fresh valvetrain measurements, the at home versions.

ZZP has been outsourcing most of their current offerings, in recent years. As long as you know you have the LS retainer type (measure slightly different than stock), you're fine for the upgraded LS type springs. Locks are pretty interchangeable, as long as they seat properly. I think I've only changed from stock once on my old GTP engine, when I didn't realize it wasn't needed.

Just finished chasing install heights with a shim set from Speedway Motors (thankfully, they're just an hour away, so it's like same-day shipping for an afternoon trip). The process can either take a couple hours or a couple days, depending on how long you want to take and stay undistracted. I have a page full of notes, because I was also replacing exhaust valves and lapping everything after ~15yrs and ~50-60+k of use.

Hope you have better luck with the graphites and ARPs than I used to in the 10sec '03 Impala years ago. He'd go to the track with MattM from ZZP and push them out with 25-30psi, until he would drop money on MLSs (only Cometics back then, ZZPs are a little nicer). Not sure if the graphites are a bigger fan of stock bolt clamping versus stud, or it was just pushing them so hard in a 600+whp build... also, Fel-pro's & Mahle's seem to have much less of a metal sealing ring than others, so I have faith. Might even pick a set of some up instead of re-using my ZZP MLSs with copper spray, but maybe I'll wait until they push. Just getting on the road for Ice Cream Cruise here in 2wks.

Was that 600hp Impala on a stock bottom end? It was pushing out headgaskets with studs? What turbo and how much boost/timing? I have a series 2 3800 in my shed that I plan to use in the future.

 

[Jon Early]

I'm a bit skeptical of graphite gaskets too, but my theory/wishful thinking is that I'll blow a gasket instead of an L36 piston. I really don't want to hurt it and I plan to limit this short block to whatever my current fuel system can support anyway. I figure an AEM 340, 80# injectors, and stock regulator will be done around 500hp.

 

[dezldave961]

Ya, it was Jeff Kalo's Impala back in ~2005-06 being built as a T67 Stattama test mule ('duckcall' on ClubGP back when that was a thing). I swapped his L36 out for an L32 block around the time it got past 500hp. There's a few vids on various YT pages, if you search the right terms. Stock engine, mild ported heads by his buddy.

My fuel system was only a Walbro255, 60#, 4.0bar Audi regulator up until this summer, and was well above the 500 mark when turned up on 100+ race gas. Not sure where E85 will have me on a DW400 and 80# now, but you'll be able to adjust as you want.

 

[MikeS]

Ya, it was Jeff Kalo's Impala back in ~2005-06 being built as a T67 Stattama test mule ('duckcall' on ClubGP back when that was a thing). I swapped his L36 out for an L32 block around the time it got past 500hp. There's a few vids on various YT pages, if you search the right terms. Stock engine, mild ported heads by his buddy.

My fuel system was only a Walbro255, 60#, 4.0bar Audi regulator up until this summer, and was well above the 500 mark when turned up on 100+ race gas. Not sure where E85 will have me on a DW400 and 80# now, but you'll be able to adjust as you want.

I’ll check it out, thanks. When my LC2 gives up I want to swap in the series 2 with 102k miles on it, f body intake, gt45 turbo, and see how far 80lb injectors and a walbro 450 get met. Fuel will be 93+ a can of VP octanium per tank, with alky sprayed on top of that.

 

[Jon Early]

I expect to get some criticism for this update, but life has been a lot different this fall and winter. For one, I'm a dad now! I don't have a ton of time to work on the car at home. Rest assured, the cars aren't going anywhere yet. I also made the tough choice to keep the GN stored in my garage this winter instead of the barn. The moisture in the barn was causing damage to whatever I parked in there. I couldn't justify letting the GN go through that again after all the work I just put into it. However, this makes working in the garage a lot more difficult.

I really needed to get the front end of the Camaro cleaned up and painted, but that's a really messy job that's better suited for days when I have a few hours to knock out some progress. I don't have time like that. The baby is also on oxygen due to breathing issues. It's best that I don't create any fumes that could make him sick either. On the other hand, I get bored without some garage time.... if I get bored, I buy stuff.... instead of giving in to my stupid impulses, I decided that unplanned and unnecessary upgrades were more productive than buying another car. I bought something I could play with while I was bored at work.

Check out this ugly thing!

Given that this is a turbo car, I really don't think I was having issues with the intake, but I recognized the F-bodies shortcomings and was really itching for a fabrication project. This kept me busy for a while.

I do not care for the electric throttle on this car. It's diameter is small but the footprint is huge. It can't be ported, and even if you could the intake opening is equally small. It's also an S-bend with the first runner right in the way of flow. 2.5" minus however much this runner stack gets in the way.

The inlet can be cut off and enlarged but why would I go that far without enlarging the tiny plenum too? There should be plenty of space between the stock intake and the cowl to raise the roof a little. Again, boost doesn't care as much about that, but making more NA power should get that turbo singing quicker, right?

This seems like a potential obstruction.

Decided to cut the UIM into tow pieces and work with them separately. Otherwise I couldn't get rid of the existing opening with any sort of elegance.

Bell mouthed the runners because why not? The old PCV plug also wasn't going to work anymore since the channel was chopped so I had to weld it closed too.

Long overdue, but the throttle coolant passage is plugged.

I decided to pipe plug these incase I ever wanted to water cool something else in the future. Doubtful, but it's an option.