Tuning tips, I'm leaving a lot of power on the table!

[Tristansgn]

I posted this in Scan tool tech, but this place may be more appropriate. I've searched the forums for my answers, but maybe I'm not looking in the right place so here goes.
Well, I have thrown a lot of parts at my car for the last 8 years and obviously tuning is everything which I'm nearly clueless. I have been working at my powerlogger for a short while and I'm trying to level out my A/F so I don't have the rich spikes when I punch it, then again when my 13 psi correction kicks in. Mike at Fullthrottle has been very helpful for me, but I work when he works and we are on different time zones so tuning advice takes longer for me, plus I'm trying not to be too clingy so I'm posting here for help too! I'll post logs real soon, but I'll describe what I'd like to work on.
My A/F at like 20-23lbs boost is ok, 10.6-10.9, its when I first punch it and when my correction at 13 psi kicks in, I get the rich spike 9.4-9.6
How to I turn down my "spool up fuel" and how do I reduce the rich spike (or valley rather on a graph) when I reach 13psi boost?
*note I have WOT base fuel at 135 (powerlogger cell), should I add a little more fuel to help? at like 2-12 psi boost I'm at 12.0-12.3 A/F

I made like 7 full throttle blasts down the road to collect data, each time playing with alky setting at the dial and increasing my manual boost controller a turn or two. I'm running a 50/50 mix of 91 octane and 116 race gas. I noticed when I turned off my alky, I got the rich spike improved to 9.8, but I start to run out of injector, and since I'd like to run more boost, I'd really prefer to keep my alky spraying.
The other area of confusion for me is the balance of octane, timing, and boost for what my car likes best...I know that's the age old question, but I seem to favor the rich, over octane, too much alky side of things lately and my car is slow because of that. I don't want to break anything so I have been trying to play it "safer." I can increase the boost, and tweak things, I'm just so new at tuning that terminology for making changes in the chip is hard to understand. Hence "pull out some fuel for faster spool up" I don't what buttons to push.
Should we be using race gas, a mix, just pump gas and alky? I usually have the boost turned down on the street, run pump gas and alky, then when I race I run 116 and turn the boost up...and realizing that's not working out for me too well...

My goal would be in the mid 10 sec range, 10.5-10.7 I would be so happy, I have been told it's possible for my set up so any help is welcome! Thanks

 

[Tristansgn]

Here are a couple files from last night, just a few full throttle street pulls. Thanks for the input!

 

[Nick Micale]

Let me give you some of my experience and opinion with your build and goals.

Most all GN owners start off with little on no tuning experience and I am one of those that started in 1987, and still learning.

Keeping everything simple is my main thrust in building and tuning a turbo car, and I think you just have too much "stuff" going on with your basic build and the mods. Based upon your build, the car should touch the 9's on a good day!

On similar builds and goals when using a stock ECM, we start out with a chip made specifically for the situation. When I am "tuning" a mid-10 build, the fuel tank has race gas, and alky is not yet in the picture, but will be later.

This allows us to prove the car and parts as well as the driver, and we can be reasonably assured a blown head gasket or worse will not happen. We start with moderate boost and increase it as data is gathered.

When the desired performance level is reached, it starts over with alky injection if that the ultimate goal.

A new chip made for alky should be installed at that point, since fueling will be different. Maybe some people can adjust their chip for alky, but people like Eric and Bob have a wealth of data that I can easily tap into rather than guess myself.

Just so you know, I somehow clicked on something that put the "funny" icon on your post and do not know how to remove it, sorry, my expertise is with wrenches, not keyboards!

 

[TurboBuRick]

Hmm, have you verified the fpr is working? Also check the vacuum line to the fpr for good signal. Something is fishy.

Looks like trans is flaring on the 2-3?

Rick

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

I posted this in Scan tool tech, but this place may be more appropriate. I've searched the forums for my answers, but maybe I'm not looking in the right place so here goes.
Well, I have thrown a lot of parts at my car for the last 8 years and obviously tuning is everything which I'm nearly clueless. I have been working at my powerlogger for a short while and I'm trying to level out my A/F so I don't have the rich spikes when I punch it, then again when my 13 psi correction kicks in. Mike at Fullthrottle has been very helpful for me, but I work when he works and we are on different time zones so tuning advice takes longer for me, plus I'm trying not to be too clingy so I'm posting here for help too! I'll post logs real soon, but I'll describe what I'd like to work on.
My A/F at like 20-23lbs boost is ok, 10.6-10.9, its when I first punch it and when my correction at 13 psi kicks in, I get the rich spike 9.4-9.6
How to I turn down my "spool up fuel" and how do I reduce the rich spike (or valley rather on a graph) when I reach 13psi boost?
*note I have WOT base fuel at 135 (powerlogger cell), should I add a little more fuel to help? at like 2-12 psi boost I'm at 12.0-12.3 A/F

I made like 7 full throttle blasts down the road to collect data, each time playing with alky setting at the dial and increasing my manual boost controller a turn or two. I'm running a 50/50 mix of 91 octane and 116 race gas. I noticed when I turned off my alky, I got the rich spike improved to 9.8, but I start to run out of injector, and since I'd like to run more boost, I'd really prefer to keep my alky spraying.
The other area of confusion for me is the balance of octane, timing, and boost for what my car likes best...I know that's the age old question, but I seem to favor the rich, over octane, too much alky side of things lately and my car is slow because of that. I don't want to break anything so I have been trying to play it "safer." I can increase the boost, and tweak things, I'm just so new at tuning that terminology for making changes in the chip is hard to understand. Hence "pull out some fuel for faster spool up" I don't what buttons to push.
Should we be using race gas, a mix, just pump gas and alky? I usually have the boost turned down on the street, run pump gas and alky, then when I race I run 116 and turn the boost up...and realizing that's not working out for me too well...

My goal would be in the mid 10 sec range, 10.5-10.7 I would be so happy, I have been told it's possible for my set up so any help is welcome! Thanks

In your signature, put your chip style, (street, alky, sd etc) translator type & version, and tire size.

Secondly, do you really have a 5" dp and 4" exhaust? And since you have a T top, do you have all 4 frame/body support mods? (the cross braces behind the seat, the 2 sets under the front end, and the set under the hood) If not, you're going to be tweaking things in the direction you don't want them to go if you have a really grippy tire. Walk through your local GN modder's shop and look at all the cars with huge slicks on them. Then notice the cracks and deformations in the body. You don't want that happening.

Also, your injectors are too small for that build up. Change them out for at least 60's, so you have a little room. Do you have a powerplate? As far as race gas and alky, do exactly what Nick says. Do the race gas first, because that verifies certain things. It's a TAD safer than alky, in that there's less things in the system to fail. Once you got your desired A/F ratio down you can tune out the race gas and tune in the alky. Overall I think for a street car alkys a little better for a few reasons. It's cheaper, it has a cooling effect that really helps during the hot months, and adds more fuel if you happen to need it. And where is your Innovate wb mounted? I ask because I've had more than a few problems with mine, and they can be finnicky depending on where they're mounted, & their age. If you have high timing (because maybe your chips an alky chip) then you should pull a few degrees as you work up towards your max boost goal. Then once that's achieved, slowly start adding timing. Don't mix race gas and alky as it makes problem diagnosis a little harder. As far as the rich spikes are concerned, don't worry about the "transitional stuff" as Eric Marshall put it. Worry about the full on WOT stuff, where your tps is at max for a second.
And if you need any more money, sell the 5" DP to some big modder with a GTQ 10,000 turbo that runs 6's in the quarter. Those are the guys that DP is made for. Use the money for the braces

 

[TurboTnZ06]

If you have an electrical fuel pressure gauge, start logging that as well. I wouldn't worry so much of the rich spike if you are spooling up and not up to rpm. That is probably just part of the chip programming. Chip builders can pull some fueling on that if you are say, under stalled at high altitude. Like mentioned, make sure WOT is good. I have my mid boost correction targeting 12.5 afr. No idea if that is "correct", but my car likes it before the alky starts spraying.

 

[Eric Stage I]

For the fueling to be more consistent, the boost needs to be more consistent.

The chip is expecting the boost to be "all in" by 4400-4600rpm. In your run, you floored it, 2 seconds have gone by, and you are only at 16psi. Then the boost creeps up to 24psi over the next 2 seconds. There is something going on causing your spool to be on the slow side. The chip doesn't "know" that the boost only got up to 16psi, so it's too rich there.

You could temporarily get around it by reducing the base WOT fuel, so it starts out leaner, and then let the correction add it as the boost creeps up. But that's not the preferred way to do it (relying completely on the correction like that).

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

Very nice info here.

 

[SS/GN]

Exhaust leaking?

 

[Reggie West]

At what psi does the alky start spraying?

I think if you go with the factory setting of 8 psi you will get a much smoother ramp in with alky.

To me it looks like you are getting a big hit at 13psi and that is what is causing such a slow spool up on the turbo.

As mentioned if you have no exhaust leaks, the set points on the alky are key.

You have to measure voltage on the alky kit to find out the activation point is. The adjustment knob inside the box is there too. Consult Razors instructions the answers are in there.

 

[Tristansgn]

Thanks for all the input on the car, I updated my signature and I'm going to make a couple passes at the track and will post logs and results tonight!