That little blue spring

K

KEhrhardt

Member
Joined
May 25, 2001
I have been modifying a generic 200-4R governor I bought off eBay to make it like the one I removed from a MCSS 200-4R as a side project. I took measurements using a triple beam gram scale with a dial indicator accurate to 1/10th gram. Here is what I have at this point:

Monte SS governor:

Large Weight (Slightly modified): 37.2 grams (stamped B 4)
Small Weight (Stock): 14.9 grams (stamped D 5)
Gear: Green 14 tooth / 10 tooth
Light blue spring on small weight

Generic governor:

Large Weight (Modified): 36.7g (stamped A 5)
Small Weight (Modified): 14.8g (stamped C 2)
Gear: Biege 14 tooth / 13 tooth
Heavy spring with 4 coils removed on small weight

I modified the governors by removing material using a Dremel tool with a cutoff wheel. Then the rough edges were filed and cleaned up using a wire wheel.

I have not yet done the set screw mod, but that is the next step. From what I understand, this consists of drilling and tapping the small weight for a set screw to retain the spring on the small weight. The set screw should be loctited in and protrudes inside the coils of the small spring to hold it in place. Is this correct?

After searching prior msgs on the forum, I have seen where others have used the lighter spring (some with coils removed) of the two from the generic governor on the small weight of the modified governor. After comparing the two springs on the generic governor to the "light blue spring" on the MCSS small weight, it seems that the lighter spring is quite wimpy and does not apply the same force to the small weight as the light blue spring does. I ended up using the heavier spring with 4 coils removed, it seems to be more like the force applied by the light blue spring. If anyone has used the heavy spring here, I would like to hear about it...

Perhaps I can use a "torque watch" to measure the force exerted by the light blue spring against the small weight and then try to match that force by playing with various springs.
:rolleyes:

Anyways I thought I would post info in case it might help someone else out in the future. :)
 
interesting

I have also made a GN gov. from a generic gov. Didn/t know anyone else would take the time and trouble to do it. I have the weight of a GN gov. written down in my garage. I think it is a little lighter than the 14.9 grams. Maybe 14.2.
BTW, you can buy just the light blue spring.
I have found that 1 gram rmoved from the small weight will raise your WOT shift 200 rpm.
 
Here's what my gov. looks like after mods.

Gov%20001.jpg


Gov.jpg


I just used the stock generic spring, the gov. is in an OG vb & now shifts @ 5800

I have no idea what the wts. weigh though.

Jim
 
Thanks for the replies guys.

Lee:

Yeah, there is someone as crazy as you are! LOL. The mods on the gov were not that much trouble, I had some time and was messing with it while watching the NCAA tournament one night. Probably spent a couple of hours grinding and an hour or so cleaning it up. The wife didn't really appreciate it too much though. If the GN small weight is 14.2g, then at least I didn't take too much off the small weight, mine weighs out at 14.9g.

Jim:

Thanks for the pix. I know I am going to have tweak the gov to get the shift points just right, but I wanted to get a good starting point to minimize the number of pan on/pan off iterations.
Here are some pix of the two governors. The first two pix are not mine and are posted for reference. I did not take any 'before' pix, but these two pix show the shape of the heavy weight before any grinding took place. The remaining four pix are mine and show both governors as they are now.

http://members.cox.net/kehrhardt1/2004r gov1.jpg
http://members.cox.net/kehrhardt1/2004r gov2.jpg
http://members.cox.net/kehrhardt1/2004r gov3.jpg
http://members.cox.net/kehrhardt1/2004r gov4.jpg
http://members.cox.net/kehrhardt1/2004r gov5.jpg
http://members.cox.net/kehrhardt1/2004r gov6.jpg

Next up: Set screw and measuring the light blue spring. If I can characterize the force exerted by the spring, I should be able to match something up. We have a ton of springs here at work.
 
Chris posted an alternative fix for flying springs sometime back- The tan plastic pin from the generic governor, with enough coils nipped off your spring to prevent binding.
No weight added to lower shift points
 
Hey guys, I wanted to bring this thread back from the dead becase it inspired me to modify my governor 5 times so far.
I did what everyone said and first i must say Lee is right on the money with the 1 gram per 200 rpm rule and it really helped me. also i did the screw mod and i was able to keep the blue spring and i was only 200rpm shy of my goal but!!!!!!!!!!
wheh i took the governor out just 3 days later the screw had already become loose!!!! chris was right on with that one!!
heres my only problem; I had added 4 grams to the small weight not knowing where it was really shifting because it was hitting the rev limiter at 6,200 hard. It now worked perfect but it shifted at 5,600 and i was ultimately looking for 5,800 so I took it back out and lucky for me I did because like I said the screw had already become loose.
Heres where my problem comes in; I took close to 1 more gram back off the small weight which should make it shift about 5,800 according to what ive done up to now. but when I did the plastic pin mod instead of the screw the blue spring was binding and didnt fit so i found one that felt like it had the same tension but it was shorter and i put it in.
Thats where it all went to hell!! now its back to shifting at 5,000 and my 2-3 shift isnt as firm as it used to be.
should I just cut my precious blue spring the amount that the plastic pin takes up? do I need a lighter or heavier spring now? i was thinking lighter. am I right? I have a few light ones but i believe they came off the large weight on a few governors i took apart and they seem very light. will too light a spring make it shift too late when driving normally? Im starting to pull my hair out with this thing now.
 
GANGSTER

How about removing the plastic post and drill and tap the shaft for a small set screw? Maybe try it on a spare shaft assuming it is not hardened. Then use RED Loctite on the set screw. The blue spring is fairly cheap from some of the trans people. I got some extras from Mike Kurtz. Also I believe TCI has them.
 
What mod do you use? I really thought i had a handle on this and I cant beleive the spring made such a difference by itself.
If i leave the pin should I just cut the blue spring and put it back in?

Am I correct that a lighter spring will help it shift later at wot?
thats the only thing I altered and it went from 5,600 to 5,000
 
Mods I do

I use a set screw in the small weight (Red Loctite) also put the set screw in a vise and rough it up some so it is hard to screw in.
Yes a weaker spring will raise the wot shift. I try to get the small weight to around 13.5 grams. As you know this is not an exact science (Trial and error). Best of luck.
 
UNLESS SOMETHING WAS STUCK AND HAS NOW FREED UP, I HAD A WEIGHT THAT WAS 14.2 AND IT WAS ALL OVER THE REV LIMITER AT 6,200 THEN I WENT TO 18.3 WITH THE SCREW AND BLUE SPRING AND IT WAS 5,600 BUT BECAUSE I HAD TO REMOVE THE LOOSE SCREW I WENT TO THE PLASTIC PIN AND SHAVED ABOUT A GRAM OFF SO ITS 17.3 AND I CHANGED THE SPRING AND ITS 5,000 WILL THE SPRING DIFF MAKE THAT MUCH DIFF???
MAYBE IT HAD A STICKY VALVE, I THOUGHT IT WAS FUNNY THAT WITH A `14.2 WEIGHT IT WAS SHIFTING 6,200
I MAY TRY THE 14.2 AGAIN WITH THE SPRING I HAVE IN NOW.
 
The spring will make a lot of diff. on the 1-2 not as much on the 2-3 & even less on the 3-4.

When I first started on my generic 200-r4 build I put the soft spring from the heavy wt. on the small wt. & it shifted @ 5000 but still only @ 3800 on the 2-3 & 3500 on the 3-4.

Are you checking your other shifts too besides the 1-2?
 
I have a stage right so my main concern is the 1-2 because i couldnt shift it manual even if i wanted to.
2-3 isnt great but i can always shift it manually.
 
question because i dont have it in front of me;
are the 2 holes in the shaft for the check balls exactly in the same place? and are the passages the same size?
the reason im wondering this is because the plastic pin is originally on the big weight and i basically swapped positions with the weights instead of trying to turn the plastic 180 degrees. does this make a difference?
 
Re: I'll go out on a limb

Originally posted by 77 cruiser
Yes
Click to expand...

yes the holes are the same or yes it makes a difference which way i have the shaft when i put the weights on?
 
OK,THANKS. I GUESS ILL TRY GOING BACK TO MY 14.2 WEIGHT ITS JUST OVER 3 GRAMS LIGHTER AND SHOULD GET ME BACK WHERE I NEED TO BE. WHENS SOMEONE GONNA COME OUT WITH A PAN THATS GOT A REMOVABLE COVER TO ACCESS THE DAMM GOVERNOR? THANKS
 
Update, tonight i took the governor back out and i was going to put the lighter small weight in but i started comparing the 2 springs and the one i put in yesterday was much stiffer.
so i cut down the blue spring to the perfect length to work with the plastic pin without binding so the small weight would close fully and now it shifts 1-2 like a dream!!!!!

now at least with the stage right i can either leave off the brake or just leave in 2nd and it will take off in 1st and shift 2nd at 5,700 on the nose and then when i manually shift 2-3 it shifts great/

only thing thats not 100% is the 2-3 when you leave it in drive, it could stand to be a little firmer. has a little overlap.

Any ideas?????? my buddy told me the valve body has to come down for that, guess it will have to go to a tranny man for that one.

so my final formula ended up being the large weight (37.2 i think it is), the small one is 17.3 and the little light blue spring cut down about 6 coils to fit with the plastic pin to hold it from popping.no spring on the heavy weight.
this formula im sure is different for every trans but the formula lee gave does work, 1 gram added to the small weight makes it shift 200 rpm earlier and vise versa.
 
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