Speeding up an 84

[Saladin45]

Hey everyone

Its been awhile since I've really been on here and I figured that I'd come back to sort of ask for a little bit of brainstorming help. I know in the past I spoke of intercoolers and the like. But to be honest, I've become far more interested in really building up the engine that I have and then move onto other things like intercoolers/alcohol.

What I was interested in looking at was things like these GN1 heads. I've heard alot of good things about them but I'm not quite sure if I want to make the $1200 jump to get ported heads. Is it really worth it and will you notice anything else once you do it?

I was also looking at buying a posi rear as well as getting the TA33 turbo and getting an adjustable wastegate as well. I've been interested in what route to take and what has worked for other people in the past. Because to be honest, I'm not really trying to mess around with alcohol injection. That may work for some people, but I'd like to see how far I can push the envelope before I have to go to Intercooler or alcohol.

I've already got everything for a cold air intake. I've just got to take the time and actually install it. But once I do that then that'll be something out of the way. I also already own some Tomco Green Stripe Injectors. #30's. Are those worth installing on or should I sell them and go for bigger injectors? If so, which size injectors? (Reason I own the Green Stripes is because someone gave em to me, they're new as well)

So what do you guys think? Lead me in the direction that I should be. I would like consistent thirteen second quarter miles. High 13's I'd even take honestly. But if I can get something lower in the 13's that be nice as well. If someone could point me in this direction that would be nice.

I've looked on GnTType already and have seen the different recipe's that they have for hotair vehicles there. I've been interested in seeing what I can do with mine. As it were, it didn't seem like any of those car's recipe's had alcohol injection when they were running those times. (Though I could be wrong, if so, someone correct me)

-Saladin

p.s. Reason being that I want to see how far I can get before intercooling or alcohol injection is due to the fact that I am sort of nervous with going into the alcohol area. And with the intercooler, I'd rather not have the headache of dealing with that just yet.

 

[t-typex1]

If you have the injectors already, it wouldnt hurt to put them in. I would also do the fuel pump/hot wire kit. A posi would help on traction. Ported/polished heads ALWAYS equal more power. Do an adjustable wastegate rod, and put in some race gas (100-110 octane). The good gas(race fuel) will be the only way to run higher levels of boost without alky.
I would think with those injectors, fuel pump/hot wired, afpr, a posi with DR's or slicks, A good chip, and some boost, you should meet your goals. Then, when your comfortable with what you have, you can research alky kits to realize its the best mod for our cars. Then you can do all this on 93 octane pump gas instead of $6-$7 a gallon of race fuel

 

[Saladin45]

So then I should be good with the curernt list?

Cold Air Intake
Tomco Green Stripe Injectors
Posi rear
GN1 Heads
Fuel Pump/Hotwire Kit
87 electronics
Adjustable Wastegate

So I should be pretty good with that?

Now, what if I went and bought that TA33 turbo? Toss that into the mix and as I've read, you can get a 40HP gain out of that Turbo. Is that maxing out on stock Boost levels? Or is that once you've got alky in there do you really feel the results of having such a turbo?

I'm just curious as to what I can get out of this thing off on the mere strength of the motor before messing with the whole alcohol system.

 

[t-typex1]

So then I should be good with the curernt list?

Cold Air Intake
Tomco Green Stripe Injectors
Posi rear
GN1 Heads
Fuel Pump/Hotwire Kit
87 electronics
Adjustable Wastegate

So I should be pretty good with that?

Now, what if I went and bought that TA33 turbo? Toss that into the mix and as I've read, you can get a 40HP gain out of that Turbo. Is that maxing out on stock Boost levels? Or is that once you've got alky in there do you really feel the results of having such a turbo?

I'm just curious as to what I can get out of this thing off on the mere strength of the motor before messing with the whole alcohol system.

I dont think you need the heads right now for 13's. Just be able to turn the boost up, with a good tune on the rest of the list. Work on some good 60' times. The alchohol will help cool your intake temps, to reduce the chance of knock to allow higher boost safely.
You can turn up the boost with race fuel too. Either way, to run good numbers, the boost needs to go up over stock levels

 

[Saladin45]

For some reason though, I just have this bad feeling about running alky.

I just have this feeling that I'd blow it up doing that.

I want the car for more than just a track vehicle. I want to be able to drive it places, etc.

 

[t-typex1]

For some reason though, I just have this bad feeling about running alky.

I just have this feeling that I'd blow it up doing that.

I want the car for more than just a track vehicle. I want to be able to drive it places, etc.

I'm thinking you need to read up a little on alky. I dont want you to think Im pushing you into using alky if you dont want it, but I do want you to know how much good it could do for you. I would look at it more of an aid to keep your air-intake temps down more than anything else. As long as you keep the tank full when running high boost, theres really not much more to do. Daily driving under normal circumstances, the alky really only gets used when your into boost 10 lbs or more. Normal driving you wouldnt use it.(unless you get into the boost alot)
Your other option to run higher boost numbers is high octane fuel. I did that for about two years. Very expensive filling a 17 gallon tank with 110 octane at 6.79 a gallon
You have alot of places to read up on it. The majority of members on this board have it, and even the GM high tech mag called alky one of THE best mods for a TR(bang for the buck). I was skeptical of it too. Now that I have it on my car, I love it
Good Luck

 

[Jerryl]

You can run 13's with a stock turbo, but you need to lean on it, and, that does not happed without octane, a good tune, chip, etc..

Here is some good info. :tongue:
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/hot-air-non-intercooled-tech/252649-alky-necessity.html

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/hot-air-non-intercooled-tech/241069-recipe.html


Edit;
FWIW; On a HA, the PAC alky kit from ALKYCONTROL starts around 4.5 psi.

 

[t-typex1]

You can run 13's with a stock turbo, but you need to lean on it, and, that does not happed without octane, a good tune, chip, etc..

Here is some good info. :tongue:
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/hot-air-non-intercooled-tech/252649-alky-necessity.html

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/hot-air-non-intercooled-tech/241069-recipe.html


Edit;
FWIW; On a HA, the PAC alky kit from ALKYCONTROL starts around 4.5 psi.

That link says everything Ive already said. Basically, Fuel, Air, Traction, and alky=13's
And to top it off, it was started by the same person who started this one.
I think your answer has been right here the whole time. It should be an easily obtainable goal with either high octane fuel or alky for boost in the 20 lb range

 

[T-Type85David]

You can use DEI CRY o2 safer then NOS(i believe), more simple to use then ALKY(i believe). IDK MY 2cents Maybe even look into getting a FUEL COOLER, heard those cool down fuel n (so should) cool down intake temps as well. DEI cry o2 can also be used to cool your fuel and intake temps n if you have it can spray your intercooler as well:wink: Design Engineering, Inc. - CryO2 System & Components HOPE THIS HELPS GOOD LUCK,

OH YES BALANCE IS KEY, if your gonna have power tame it with a good tranny, if your gonna have power coming out the tranny, have a good rear end to hold it, If your gonna have a good rear end make sure you got tires to HOOK UP! (examples) Hmmmm but make sure you can stop tho, 24yr plus cars COME ON

 

[Jerryl]

That link says everything Ive already said. Basically, Fuel, Air, Traction, and alky=13's
And to top it off, it was started by the same person who started this one.
I think your answer has been right here the whole time. It should be an easily obtainable goal with either high octane fuel or alky for boost in the 20 lb range

:wink:

 

[Saladin45]

Sorry! Forgot about those threads.

The thing is, now I finally actually have the money to start executing these plans.

I was thinking getting the heads regardless because though I am hunting for 13's, I think that I will probably want to push through to the 12's soon afterwards. So why not just get the good stuff while I can? You dig what I am trying to say?

The alcohol system might be more apetizing. I have to think about it. Sure, the bang for the buck is great. $500 and basically you can raise the boost up and get better track times... And controlling it from spraying all the time is good too. I think I might just have to look into that. It might not be a bad idea. I've just had this feeling in the past that its going to ruin my engine. (Weird hangup of mine, someone want to prove to me my worries are baseless? It would ease the mind)

So here we go... Revised list.

86/87 Electronics
Ajustable Wastegate
Razor Alky Kit
Turbotweak chip
GN1 Heads

(Then if I can still afford it, a TA33)

This should run me a pretty penny. But it should be within like 3k, right?


-Saladin

 

[Jerryl]

Personally, I would not recommend GN1's
Ported irons are good enough for a loooooong while.

Alky in a DD works fine.
Make sure you get the TT chip, preferably the 6.0! This chip ROCKS!
Requires a 87 ECM, Wideband and Powerlogger.

 

[t-typex1]

Sorry! Forgot about those threads.

The thing is, now I finally actually have the money to start executing these plans.

I was thinking getting the heads regardless because though I am hunting for 13's, I think that I will probably want to push through to the 12's soon afterwards. So why not just get the good stuff while I can? You dig what I am trying to say?

The alcohol system might be more apetizing. I have to think about it. Sure, the bang for the buck is great. $500 and basically you can raise the boost up and get better track times... And controlling it from spraying all the time is good too. I think I might just have to look into that. It might not be a bad idea. I've just had this feeling in the past that its going to ruin my engine. (Weird hangup of mine, someone want to prove to me my worries are baseless? It would ease the mind)

So here we go... Revised list.

86/87 Electronics
Ajustable Wastegate
Razor Alky Kit
Turbotweak chip
GN1 Heads

(Then if I can still afford it, a TA33)

This should run me a pretty penny. But it should be within like 3k, right?


-Saladin

You could do an 87 IC'd LC2 swap like I did. I ran 12's with a stock turbo, only mod to run 12.8 was I put in 50's, fuel pump/hot wire kit and a downpipe
You really dont need heads yet. That would require you to tear your motor apart. The other things are bolt-ons.
Try the bolt-ons first

 

[Saladin45]

Gotcha. Bolt on's it is then.